The podcast where TWO passions become ONE!
April 23, 2023

Episode 33. Fantasy Author Lauren M Leasure

Always a creative. With a story in mind, what happens when you sit down and you decide to put pen to paper?

You come up with a fantasy novel that will stand the test of time. Join me as I talk to fantasy author Lauren M. Leisure on this episode of...

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Always a creative. With a story in mind, what happens when you sit down and you decide to put pen to paper?

You come up with a fantasy novel that will stand the test of time. Join me as I talk to fantasy author Lauren M. Leisure on this episode of True Crime and Authors.

Lauren M Leasure is a native of Maine who now calls Florida home. She’s a lover of all things fantasy and magic.

When she’s not writing, she’s spending time with her two pups, Sadie and Sport, and her awesome husband, Steven.


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always a creative. With a story in mind, what happens when you sit down and you decide to put pen to paper? You come up with a fantasy novel that will stand the test of time. Join me as I talk to fantasy author Lauren M. Leisure on this episode of True Crime and Authors.

Welcome to True Crime and Authors Podcast, where we bring two passions together. The show that gives new meaning to the old adage, truth is stranger than fiction. Here's your host, David McClam. What's going on everybody. Welcome to another episode of True Crime and Authors. Of course, I am your man, David McClam.

And if you guys haven't already, make sure that you are following us on all of our social media outlets. All of that can be found in the show notes of this episode. Well, if you've been paying attention to the episode list and looking at the calendar, you know, today, I interview another fabulous author. Let me tell you a little bit about who we have today. She is a native of Maine and she now calls Florida her home. She is a lover of all things, fantasy and magic. And when she's not writing, she's spending time.

with her husband and two pups, Sadie and Sport, and her awesome husband, Steven. She is the author of the Sin of Saints, the Benevolence, and Blood series. Please welcome to the show, Lauren M. Leisure. Lauren, welcome. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Well, thank you for coming. It's an awesome opportunity to get to talk to you, and I'm glad that we finally get this chance to speak.

Yeah. So Sins of Saints, this is your very first book that you've ever written. It is, yeah, it is. So I'm, it's crazy. Yeah, I don't know really where it came from. It kind of just popped up all of a sudden, the idea, and then there it went. I noticed that you had a quote on your website I want to read a little bit, because it says, I didn't necessarily set out to write a book. A rough idea came to me one day, and I just kind of started. That rough idea led me to a world of my own creation.

One, I can see so vividly and I have a hard time believing it doesn't exist. And so out of that came the sin of saints. Did you intend, you know, if you thought about writing a book before, did you intend to go down the fantasy lane or is that just something that you just fell into? So I've always really liked to write since, I mean, since I was a kid. And I never really even consider writing a book. I just always liked to write. I would do poetry and you know, anytime there was like a short story.

contest, I would do that kind of stuff. And I just like to do anything creative in general. And then when it came to school and you know, going to college and everything, I found myself oftentimes proofreading and editing my friends, you know, their papers and everything. And I genuinely enjoyed it. And I never really thought that I would write a book until I kind of

uh just did it um and when it comes to fantasy i mean i've always really liked fantasy uh not so much even reading it until recently but you know i have big gamathrones fans love lord of the rings all that stuff so uh i kind of fell into reading the fantasy genre last year with one of my best friends ashley she and i uh came across the court of thorns and roses which is you know the the big kind of it's like the the the chick flick of the fantasy world

Um, and yeah, since then it's kind of been almost all I've read and then I just started writing. So I wish I had a cooler story. So, well, no, it's, it's kind of fascinating you make up Lord of the Rings because when you read this book, I kind of do get Lord of the Ring vibes, just how everything is set up, how everything is flowing, the plot line, especially when it comes to Petra and all the things that she endures throughout the book. Which brings me to when you thought about

the book and the main characters, what was the main concept that you came up with when you created Petra? One of, I guess, the main things that I had in my mind when I started writing and I started thinking, okay, what have I read and what elements have I not seen? And that's kind of how I came up with the concept of there being drugs involved, because I don't really see that a lot of that in any fantasy.

And so that was kind of really the only like thing that I knew I wanted. When it comes to Petra and really developing her character and putting her on this terrible journey that she goes through, I kind of let her almost tell me what she wanted to be. I didn't really like, I didn't storyboard her. I didn't even really have, oh, I want her to be this, this, this, and this. I kind of just started writing and let it...

Right itself. And Petra kind of, you know, came, her personality kind of started to come out more and more as I wrote and yeah, that's kind of how Petra was born. So a lot of the authors I've spoken to, um, they've told me that some of their main characters has lived in their brain for a number of years. Uh, one author told me 11 years before it actually came out on paper. Is that the same with you with Petra? Maybe she lived inside of your brain for a while. You just didn't know it. Or did you always know she was there? Yes and no. I mean.

I like the idea of I didn't know that she was there because there was one thing I actually made an Instagram post about the enneagram types of all of the characters and I realized that Petra and I have the same enneagram type. I was like, huh, I wonder if that's some subconscious thing. So I think I would like to think of Petra as almost like kind of an extension of myself in that she is a lot looser with her language than I am in real life. And so in a way that's like...

a way that I guess I express myself through Petra. So I don't know if like a concrete idea of her was in my brain necessarily. Obviously she was in there somewhere, but I think, like I said, just kind of developed as she was written. It's kind of funny you mentioned that like her language is a lot looser than what yours is because I don't know if anybody else does this, but when you look at an author and then you read a book, you look at the person's like.

Does she really write that? Cause you know, cause your picture like, she's like, she don't even look like she would say these things in real life. I know from being a world wrestling Federation fan, they are entertainment. Now they say that the character is the extension of the actual real person. So does Petra live a little bit in you somewhere to bring these things out that you don't normally do in real life? A hundred percent. Yes. So I would like to think that with all of the terrible things that Petra

goes through. She kind of reacts the way that I would think that I would react. But yeah, a lot of like when I'm with my friends, I will say that Petra's language is, I guess, a reflection of myself, like whenever my friends, but otherwise, like on social media and stuff, it's a little bit different now with like the Sin of Saints promotions, but like on social media and in school, like I was always a very, you know, I was always very proper and like the good girl. I never really was the one who had like this crazy...

you know, foul mouth. And so I definitely think that like letting Petra speak like that was almost therapeutic for me. So yeah. Well, I bring to my next question. Was there any real life experiences at all that you kind of intertwined into the center saints? So yes and no, I think even like the more that I go back and think about it or read it, I think that there was definitely some subconscious stuff. There wasn't necessarily anything in my life that

I was like, oh, that would be good, you know? You know, some of the character traits, like there are, obviously I won't give anything away, but narcissistic character traits. You know, like Rena, who turns out to be her good friend, and same with even Merida and Solis, I have kind of pulled traits from people that I know, good traits and everything when it comes to creating them. I know a lot of times...

people say like, oh, you should write this person into your book and you should, you should kill them off or you should, you know, do this or that. I do have one person that I wrote into the book. His name was Ethan and he was based on somebody who burned my friend pretty badly. And so he was like the one character that I pulled from real life. But when it comes to and kill them off, so I guess don't make me angry because I'll put you in my book. But.

But yeah, no, when it comes to like the events and stuff, nothing, I genuinely don't know where it came from. I wish I could be like, yeah, all this bad stuff happened to me. It was therapeutic, but no. So for this is a come from pure imagination is real in depth. The one thing that you did, which again reminds me of like Lord of the Rings is you have a lot of unique characters and a lot of unique lands. And then if anybody checks out your website, that'd be in the show notes here.

You actually have like a whole entire map pointing out different things, even down to how you're supposed to pronounce all of the names. Yes. How did you come up with such unique characters and lands? Again, I, I guess I don't really even know. I kind of, I just really let the story write itself, but when it came down to, you know, I knew that I wanted it to be its own.

I knew it didn't want to take place on Earth or wherever or in this realm that we're in. And I think that a lot of that comes down to the fact that yeah, I love the fantasy genre and I love reading books that have their own maps and have these characters and have these dynamics that we don't necessarily see in real life. Yeah, I don't... I wish I had like a cool like, yeah, I pulled it from this cool part of my mind, but I really...

I guess just wanted to create my own world. Like who doesn't want to do that? And for some reason with this, it just worked. Well, I will be the first to say, cause I think I may share with you, I wasn't a fantasy reader. I wasn't a big fantasy fan. Every time I seen a fantasy book, I passed it over. When I got into Katie and Braze, I got into that group and I'm in another group called Cats Book Nerds. And the reason I did that is cause I wanted to expand my reading. I used to only read autobiographies and true crime.

So I'm like, well, let me see, you know, what's out there. Cause my daughter, my oldest daughter, Geneva's like, well, you know, there are some books that's written as fantasy that actually reads like it's a real life story. You might enjoy them. So when I ran across Joe book and there was a tool for him, like the cover looked cool. So that's what grabbed me. I'm like, all right, this cover looks pretty cool. So I read about the synopsis. I'm like, let's give it a shot. And I'm glad that I did. It actually was, it's actually a very good book. It did read to me, like it's something that could happen in real life. The only thing that kind of drew you away from that was because you would know that the,

name of the land and things like that was not real because you can't look them up on a map. But besides that, everything to me, it kept me enthralled through the whole entire book. And that's what I was really hoping to get. And fantasy can be so difficult. And that's why so many fantasy books are like bricks. They're huge because if a book takes place in New York City, you don't necessarily have to spend three chapters explaining.

what New York City is because you can either one, look it up or you two already know enough about New York City to put them two together. When it comes to building a whole new land, so much of it has to be explained. And so that was one challenge with the book was I wanted it to be intertwined with the story. I didn't necessarily want to be sitting here saying, okay, this city is near this city and this, you know, I wanted it to come out very naturally through, you know, dialogue and her thoughts and all that.

Going forward then, because according to my Kindle, I believe it told me that the Senate Senses is about a 15 hour read. Yeah, like you had to explain everything. Are you going to use the same lands going forward as you write the series? And if you do, that's going to, is that going to shorten the length of the book? Cause you don't have to really explain as much as how these cities and stuff works? So it'll be in the same, yeah, same world, same lands and everything.

there will be, you know, the next book will have it'll expand out more to some of the cities that were mentioned as well as, you know, cities that are going to be kind of new in the, in the second and third books. I don't necessarily want it to be shorter. And I think that it'll actually leave me more room for the actual story since I don't have to explain as much, you know, obviously there's going to be some things that need to be explained further, but yeah, I think it'll, it'll be.

much more story heavy than, but, you know, setting up the actual world. So yeah, in terms of world building, I won't have to do as much. Well, I think 15 hours is a good pace for a book that's disenthralled. Also, the chapters are not super long. You know, I've read books before where the first chapter out of the gate is like an hour and a half long. Um, sometimes that become a non-ness because if you don't have a full hour and a half to read that, you're splitting that chapter up.

And now it sticks in your mind, well, like, no, I can't finish it until then. So I think the book is very good pace. It's proper length. It leaves you off right where you want it to. Right. So it leaves you at a point to where you have to check out book number two, because you're just left on that cliff. But looking at some of the other stuff you do, so you wrote, written this book. It's a series, but according to what I've read, it says that you are also a serial creative and you have 12 different hobbies at this time. Yes.

How do you keep up with that and writing your books? I don't sleep much and not because I, you know, don't have the time to sleep. I just, I'm not, I don't sleep a lot and I have a lot of, I'm a multitasker. I have, you know, a whole like shelving area just dedicated to every creative hobby I've ever gone through. My joke right now is that I'm like, okay, well I wrote a book so now I think I want to learn how to play the bagpipes.

I'm not actually going to do it because bad guys are very expensive. I found I looked it up. Yeah, there's any given time. I feel like I'm doing three things at once. It'll be I actually graduate this coming Saturday from with my master's from grad school at Penn State. That'll free up more time for me to do random things. Yeah, I mean, I like to knit. I like to into videography. I just all sorts of random.

Stuff so I I feel like you know in my family and friend group they were like well, it's only a matter of time before you wrote a book Because you did everything else. So Yeah, I just have to be doing something. You sound kind of like me. Yeah. I mean I do this one I do another podcast. I'm a drummer so i'm doing drum videos all the time So it's like I understand where you're coming from. A lot of people don't understand the creative mind It flows from one thing

to the next, almost like a challenge, right? So even things you didn't set out to do, like you didn't set out to write a book, but then all of a sudden you write a book and you're like, okay, well I've done that. Exactly. What else can I do and accomplish? Exactly. I totally know where you're coming from. If you don't mind, I think I have a few questions here from your fans and readers out there, so let's tackle those.

So one of the questions is when is book two going to be released? So I, here's the thing is if I, this is the other thing, but I feel like with a lot of creative people, if I put a date on it, I will not start until three weeks before, which is not happening because I'm already working on book two. Um, my goal is end of this year, beginning of next year. Um, a lot of it depends on, um, my editor. My editor is amazing. Her name is Joyce, but she's going for her doctoral. So.

A lot of it will depend on her and her schedule and everything. And I do, you know, I want it to be perfect. So end of, end of this year, beginning of next year is what I'm shooting for. But yeah, I don't necessarily have a set date. So my own question on top of that, now you don't have to answer if you don't want to. Do you know how many books will be in the series? So I'm not sure if it's going to be a trilogy or four books. We're trying to, is there, I don't know if there's a word for four book series. It's just a four book series.

book series. Yeah. We're trying to think about like, is that trilogy? Whatever. So it's going to depend a lot on what happens in book two and book three. If I can wrap it up nicely, I'll do three. If I feel like, you know what, I need one final punch, I'll do four books. And I do have room for a prequel, which I'm very excited about. I have no idea when that will happen, but I have a lot of ideas in my head for that.

I think this question has already been answered, but I didn't see that it was here. But I'll ask it again. Were any characters based on people that you knew? Yeah. So I had the, had the one, the one person, uh, and other than that, you know, certain traits, I will say though, and I made it, I put it in the acknowledgments, I don't know how everybody reads the acknowledgments. I was like, I thanked my family and I was like, I, no conscious decisions were made to include traits.

Yeah, I didn't want my mom to read it and say, my mom's not the, the mom's not the best in the book. Where did you get this from? So yeah, I don't want anybody to run, run with that except for, except for Ethan. So just to let you know, I do, uh, maybe people think it's weird. I do read the acknowledgements. I read them because well, you get to know a little bit more about the author, right? Who helped on the book, you know, who they wanted to think, what they went through usually goes into the acknowledgements. So I do actually read those. So you're not writing those in vain.

That's awesome. Now the question is, will there be new characters in book two? So yes, I'm very, very, very excited. I have a few characters that I'm working on. One is going to be this really cool, bad ass girl who's going to be, you know, basically be friend Petra. She has a, this girl has another friend and he's a really cool guy. He's awesome. And then there were going to be some, trying to think of how to say it without.

There are going to be some military generals or tenets, commanders, that kind of stuff who are also going to be really cool. She's going to have a lot less of a hard time in this one. It's not going to be easy, but she's not going to get burned by as many people. That's always good. Who would you cast as Petra if The Sin of Saints was a movie?

So the only person I've ever been able to find that's partially like Petra in my head is Josephine Langford. I don't know anything about her other than what she looks like. I know she's in some things. I just don't know what. But the thing with Petra in my head is she's not perfect how a lot of times in...

fantasy novels. I feel like, you know, the main character is obviously beautiful and slim and tall. Petra is not necessarily the most beautiful. She's not graceful, that kind of stuff. So I don't really have anybody in my head other than Josephine Langford just looks, looks alone. I know she's out there. If I, if I ever see her, I'll screenshot it and post it. But yeah, the cover of the sin of saints is

Awesome. I think it's one of the better covers that I've seen. Who designed your cover for you? And is this something that you came up with or the designer did? So my cover designer, I would give her millions of dollars if I could. She was amazing. So, um, her name's Ivy at beautiful book covers. I actually found her on Etsy. I found a, uh, I was just scrolling through like they make pre-made covers, um, where, you know, they only, only one person can buy them and everything. Um, and I saw.

this really gorgeous cover and it was like a dagger with a snake wrapped around it. I was like, oh, that is awesome. And I almost just bought that one, but my cousin was like, this is so cool. But my friends and family were like, you know what you should just, just, you know, see if you can find some custom work. And so I reached out to her and I was like, hey, do you do custom work? This is kind of what I'm thinking. I basically said I want filigree and I want symbolism.

that's kind of it. She said, okay. And I don't think she knew what she was signing up for when she said yes to me. She was just incredible. I mean, she wanted everything to be perfect. We exchanged hundreds of messages. And I mean, she took literally what was in my head, you know, put it on a book, everything from the font to, you know, I have kind of like the what I wanted to be, you know, the beasts of Onyx Pass kind of in the vines and everything with the snake. She just...

knocked it out of the park. So yeah, if anybody needs a book cover, Ivy at Beautiful Book Covers on Etsy, amazing. Yeah, we definitely cannot sleep on those Etsy artists because Kat's Creation 614, who's actually the official sponsor of my show, she makes custom reading journals and other kinds of journals. Oh, wow. And that's how I found her and her journal work. I was the only guy, I think I still am, that she's created a journal for. And I came at her with all kinds of stuff and...

You know, my latest one, I said, I want one in the Black Panther theme. And she knocked out the part. Oh, that's so that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I, again, I don't think she knew what she was signing up for when she said, yes, but I mean, just every little tiny thing that I thought of, you know, she made just perfect. And I mean, even so much as, you know, the symbolism of the colors in the background, you can kind of see, I don't know if you can even see it on here, but like, you know, it's, it's obviously blue, but there's undertones of

green for a certain character's blue and green eyes. And then there's undertones of purple for the leech thorns. So she just, I mean, I stare at this and I'm like, I can't believe that this is my book because, you know, and covers, people say, oh, I don't, you know, don't judge a book by its cover. People totally judge a book by its cover, especially fantasy. Yeah, Etsy artists, thousand percent. All glory to her because she, the cover she created is what's catching a lot.

of eyes. And that's exactly what caught mind even wanting to read the synopsis. And I know a lot of people say, well, the cover doesn't matter. It's what's in the story. And I'm like, I highly disagree. Cause if it wasn't for that cover, I may not have even wanted to read the synopsis. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think we all appreciate a pretty book. Like, and I wanted it to look good on the shelf. And I mean, if, I think if I saw this in a bookstore, I would, I would pick it up. And there, you know, there are books that I'm sure they're amazing. They could be the best books in the world, but

If it doesn't have a good cover, I hate to say it. Like, you know, I think, I think, I think everybody's that way. I'll be the one to say it. Um, yeah, it, it's, it is very striking and I'm still like in disbelief that that's, you know, my story. So you are an independent author. This is something I usually ask everybody. Are you independent because of choice now you wanted your own creative control? Or if a big book house came to you and said, Hey, we really want to pick up the sense of saints. Would you consider that?

So I actually, I initially started out submitting to agents to try to get with a traditional publisher just because I didn't know anything about self-publishing. I knew nothing about it. All I knew is I had a very preconceived idea in my head of self-published equals not good. And I think a lot of people have that in their head. I quickly learned that you can have the best story in the world. And if an agent just might not...

pick it up. It's very, very hard. So after kind of looking more into the pros and cons after it was like two weeks or so that I had aging inquiries out, I pulled all my inquiries and I was like, you know what? I'm going to do this myself because then I, you know, I did hear horror stories of contracts and you know, they can change your story and then edit your story. And you know, I wanted input on the cover. So yeah, ultimately it was by choice. I think if somebody reached out now, I would definitely entertain the idea.

just because I would have a little bit more leverage to say, hey, I did the first one on my own. So I would like, you know, maybe more input. I would like to get more input than, you know, another author would. Yeah, it's a wild ride to self-publish, let me tell you. And it's not, there is not a handbook, there is not a rule book. And I don't even know if there could be because there's so many little, you know, parts to it.

But yeah, for now I'm self-published. I'll probably do it for the second one. If someone wants to reach out and great, but if not doing it on my own. So that kind of begs this question. Cause when I talked to Nicole Wilden, she's the author of obedience. Her book was extremely long. Um, and there was a lot of things that she packed into that book. She was afraid and was told that if a big publishing house actually picked her up, that they would want her to minimize that.

Um, and she wasn't willing to do that. If your big publishing house picked you up for either one to republish the sin of saints or whatever your next books are, would you be willing to compromise your content to go to a bigger house? So I am in general, a very like meek and mild person. I will take a lot of things before I actually get angry, but I think with my book, I would be able to like put my foot down and say, no, listen, you know, this is my story. If they wanted to touch anything in the sin of saints, I would say.

No, not not with this one. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I would hope that if that did, you know, if somebody reached out and said, we want to do the second book or the third book or whatever, I would be able to have enough leverage and say, hey, this has been very well received because of, you know, what I did. So I would like input on this next one. But yeah, no, I don't think I would let them really change the story. And at this point, I have, you know, the stories mapped out in my head beginning to end.

They'd have a hard time taking that. I will say definitely stand your ground because if they wanted that and they didn't want to work with you on that, they're definitely missing out because Ascent of Saints is a great book. You're a great writer. Well, thank you. It's happening this way all over the industry. So I don't know if you watch a lot of Apple TV Plus, but when Apple TV Plus was first launched, all of your big producers, right, even down to Steven Spielberg.

said we want to write for this platform because we want to write movies that no one else wants to pick up. And it was crazy because Ted Lasso won Oscars, is now nominated for 14 different Emmys, Cotto won best picture. And so you watch these shows, you're like, why wouldn't anybody pick these up? And they're saying, cause they wanted to tell the story the way they wanted to tell the story and not have a publishing house tell them how they could do it. Yeah, and a lot of it does come down to...

with, you're sending out inquiry emails or every once in a while there's a form that you can submit. And it says, okay, tell us what your book's about in a hundred words or less. I'm like, a hundred words for like... And all the websites say, well, if you're a good writer, you should be able to do it in a hundred words. And so that was... And that's why I even say, you could have the best story in the world, but it might not

You're a hundred words or maybe you wrote a hundred and two or something like that. So yeah, no, I definitely see now and now that I'm in this community and in this niche, how many amazing self-published authors there are. Just the quality of work is absolutely incredible. Well, you know, the thing is, is I couldn't even, and I'm just a reader and a fan. I couldn't describe the Scent of Saints in a hundred words. Exactly. Exactly.

And I've talked about your book before because everybody knows I'm an average reader and they know that this podcast was coming up and they're like, so what book are you reading today? And I'm like, well, here it is. I'm reading the center saints. Well, what can you tell me about the book? And my answer, my answer always was how long do you have? I'm like, I can't simply explain this book to you to where you get the gist of wanting to read it, unless I go into a little bit of detail. So if you're looking for a few words, it's not going to happen.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, getting my synopsis down to something that can fit on the back of a book cover that... Because I'm one of those people where if I pick up a book, I'll read the first few lines of the synopsis. I probably won't, even if it's a book that I'm going to end up buying, I probably won't read the whole synopsis. So I'm like, okay, how can I get this down? Because there are so many different facets. And I wish that when somebody asks, hey, what's your book

quick, you know, something that I could say. Maybe I'll get there, but yeah, it's a little bit more complicated than a hundred words. So do we know, and are you willing to share what the name of book two would be? So I have a few ideas. My big, I guess, decision that I have to make, and this is very, very serious, is do I want to follow the pattern of.

the blank of blank? Or do I want to kind of deviate from that? Because originally I was like, you know, I want to keep the, you know, the sin of saints, the blank of blank. So no, I don't have anything that I can share yet, but I do have some really freaking awesome ideas that I'm very excited about. And that is something that, you know, once that's ready, I'm very excited to like release that. I think that would be a cool day. How does your husband feel about your book and the success that you're getting from the

My husband and I are very opposite in the creative department. He can't draw a straight line with a ruler. He's very like math oriented. He's numbers. He's concrete things. I'm like rainbows and paint and glitter everywhere. So when I told him I was writing a book, I think it was kind of the same thing as, hey, I'm going to learn to play ukulele or hey, I'm going to teach myself.

how to knit. He was like, okay, cool. Like how much is this going to cost us basically? How many trips to the craft store is this one going to take? And so I kind of started telling him about the concept. And at first, you know, and he's amazing. He's a very good listener, but I could tell that when I started talking more and more about it and he was like, oh, oh, okay. And the only thing I've seen my husband read since I met him is a menu. So I asked.

I love him, but it's true. And I'm a big reader. So I asked him, I was like, hey, would you be willing to read my book? And he said, oh, of course. Now getting him to actually do it was a little bit longer. But when he finally picked it up and started reading it and got a few chapters in, he was like, oh, oh, okay. And I think it's when he got to chapter six.

kind of know when they get to chapter six, the day of Sindragala, which yeah, readers will know. I think that's when I heard him start to swear out loud and he was like, oh my gosh. And so he was, and so basically he said, you know, since that point, it doesn't ever slow down. And he finished it and he was the reason that I even pursued, you know, going to publish.

because it's awkward when someone you know says, hey, I wrote a book, do you want to read it? Because if it's bad, that's awkward. You know what I'm saying? So he was really like the push where he was like, I think that you have something here and you really need to do something with this. How do we make this happen? So he was my final push to get the beta readers and move through that process. He is...

You know, every day he's amazed even, and I'm amazed that it's bringing in any kind of money. So I think, you know, he's also happy about that part, that it wasn't just me sitting around in all my spare time writing a book for no reason. But yeah, no, he's super proud. He doesn't understand the fantasy world of things, but he's, you know, happy to be along for the ride. What's new? What's next for Lauren? Now we know you're going to graduate.

college with a very big degree. So congratulations to that. Thank you. Thank you. So besides writing things, what's next for you that we can look forward to coming down the line? So, um, yeah, definitely, you know, next, next books, I would love to expand and write, you know, more, obviously more serious, more books. Um, I would love to explore, you know, an adult cause I always love that. It's just, this actually kind of started out in my head as young adult, but then I started to swear. So I was like, I can't make this adult.

But other than that, yeah, no, I do still work, weirdly enough. I do marketing and I basically run a chiropractic clinic. So yeah, I mean, other than that, just more book ventures. I'm excited to kind of have some more of my time back after I graduate. Yeah, and maybe I will learn to play the backflips. Who knows?

So is there anything out there that you would like to say to your readers and fans as you wrap this up? I mean, I know they're sick and tired of hearing me say this, especially if you're on my email list. Just thank you. Like, there's not, there aren't words to explain how, I mean, you know, one person reading my book blows my mind. And, you know, every day I get on, you know, it's all on Amazon and I see, I can see how many pages are read on Kindle Unlimited.

And you know, that's completely separate from sales and stuff. And every single day I just I am amazed at how many people are reading The Sin of Saints all over the world. So just just literally thank you. Every every review, even the bad reviews, just any anything that you know, you guys can have given to me has been more appreciated than literally anybody could know when I could talk about this for 48 hours. But yeah, just just thank you.

Well, let me say, Lauren, I am grateful that you came on the show. I hope that we've given your fans a lot more to look forward to. Um, like I said, the sin of saints, I'm not a fantasy reader, uh, but I will read every book that comes out in this series. You have my word on that. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. This was so, so exciting. I mean, literally, like I said, anytime anybody's like, Hey, I read your book. Do you want to.

do this. I'm like, you want me? It's like really me. So, so thank you. It's, it's amazing. Thank you so much. Well, as you know, you're one of the first ones I reached out to when I started this show. So I'm happy that we finally got you here. And, um, anytime you want to come back, feel free. Maybe when you write book two, we can have you back. We can talk about that even some more. Oh yeah. Heck yeah. It's a date. Oh, excited. All right, Lauren, we'll be, thank you for coming on today. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Alright guys, so that was the incredible Lauren M. Leisure, her book, The Sin of Saints. Go out, pick that up. You can find it right now on Kindle Unlimited for free if you are a Kindle Unlimited subscriber. Just go look up The Sin of Saints, The Benevolent and Blood series. She does not get paid a dime unless you are reading the book. I know a lot of my authors say they don't care about the money, but we need to support them so they can continue to write great books for us.

So again, to Lauren M. Leisure, thank you for coming on the show. Always guys, make sure you follow us on social media. Anything you wanna know about Lauren will be down in the show notes. Make sure you check out her awesome website where you can learn more about the sin of saints. Also join her newsletter so you know what's coming up next. As always, I thank you guys for joining us today. Always remember, this is the podcast that brings two passions into one. And I'll talk to you guys.

the next time.

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