Episode 10. "Gasping for Air: From Victim to Advocate - Author Dana Diaz

00:00 - David (Host)
Abuse. It is something that some people feel is a generational curse. Can you argue with someone that abuse started when they were a young child and then ended up for over 20 years in a narcissistic, abusive relationship? How do you come out of that? What do you do? When you do come out of it? You become a fabulous author and the voice for victims of narcissistic abuse everywhere. Join me as I talk with author and narcissistic abuse survivor, dana S Diaz, on this episode of True Crime. Authors and Extraordinary People. 

00:48 - Jaquie (Host)
Welcome to True Crime Authors and Extraordinary People, the podcast where we bring two passions together. The show that gives new meaning to the old adage truth is stranger than fiction. And reminding you that there is an extraordinary person in all of us. Here is your host, david McClam. 

01:10 - David (Host)
What's going on, everybody, and welcome to another episode of True Crime. Authors and Extraordinary People. Of course I'm your man, david McClam. Hey, if you guys haven't already, make sure you follow us on all of our social medias. One link to a link tree will get you every link you need to have pertaining to the show. Well, once again, folks, I find myself in that unique pickle of having an author, but also can fit the same bill as an extraordinary person. So let me tell you who our author is today. 

01:40
She studied journalism and psychology at DePaul University. While there's no better teacher than life experience, and she has had lifelong experiences with narcissistic abuse, her education did give her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims. Today, she is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book, cruddling Her Own Abusive Marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement. When she isn't speaking out on narcissistic abuse, she can be found listening to music by Eric Hutchison, ellie King, green Day, amy Whitehouse, julia Michaels and Taylor Swift. She equally loves her gray Converse shoes, which she wears them every day and she probably has on right now in her Toyota FJ Cruiser. 

02:50
Dana watches the sunrise and set every single day and enjoys hikes in the woods. She absolutely loves animals for their sensitivity and loving hearts and has two cats, kitty. Kitty and Tigger, and she makes her home in Illinois with her husband, doug. She is the author of the best-selling book Gasping for Air the Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse. Please welcome Dana S Diaz. Dana, welcome to the show. 

03:19 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Thank you so much for having me. 

03:21 - David (Host)
It is my honor and my pleasure to have you here today. I know that was kind of a lengthy introduction, but is there anything else about Dana that we don't know? 

03:32 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Probably not. If anyone read my book. I mean I kind of lay it out there. You know the book was meant for other victims of abuse who, like me, thought they were alone. But honestly, the first meeting I ever had with my publisher she said you know, we've all heard the husband's a villain and he's mean and he's abusive. Poor wife, she's like there's stuff about you. You're a nice girl, we like you, but it takes two to tango. And so I laid everything out. I laid everything out Even. You know we've all done shameful things, have mistakes, regrets, but everything is in that book. Let me tell you, although I've written two more books, I'm in the process of publishing, so apparently there's more. 

04:18 - David (Host)
Busy, busy. Yeah, I try. Well, I can certainly say that you have. You're kind of like me. You have a wide range of musical choices. 

04:28 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah. 

04:29 - David (Host)
The ones that we named here do they have just a special heart, a special place in your heart for you. 

04:34 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah, you know, I mean it's actually. I hate I'm not trying to be one of those promotional people that keeps referencing the book, but the first page of the book, before the book even starts, I kind of give a little blurb explaining when I was a little girl, because abuse started for me when I was born. But when I was a little girl I found that well one when I would try to tell my mother or any other adults about the abuse I was enduring from my stepfather verbal and physical abuse nobody believed me and then my mother would tell me to keep quiet. Nobody wants to hear about it. You know it's all hush-hush, polite. Society doesn't want to hear about unpleasant things and when you're a little kid they just say, oh, she's making stuff up, she's just trying to get attention. 

05:16
But I found my outlet was music, because when you have that all inside of you there's a lot of you know you're a little kid, you don't understand what mental health is, you don't know what narcissistic abuse is, you know you're not being treated right. You know how you feel and it doesn't feel good. But I found that I couldn't get in trouble if I listened to music, but it was the lyrics and the melodies, but especially the lyrics. So yeah, those artists that you mentioned, like I mean, every day I've got my Amazon Echo right next to my computer here that I always have it going and probably plays the same music over and over. But it's stuff that just speaks to my soul and you know everybody has their therapy or whatever you know heals their soul and for me it's music, always has been. 

06:05 - David (Host)
It's the same for me. I'm a musician but there's probably songs about play 40 million times because they do something for me, especially in the right time, a right state of mind, right, exactly, speaking of Taylor, I hope she uses her influence. There's a young man that got fired because he worked for a company for years and they did the worst thing they could do to a Swifty. They say, hey, today you're going to guard the front of the stage, but hey, look, you can't look at her, you can't turn around. So he goes to a social media and he says, hey, I can't use my phone at all this concert. So can somebody just take a picture of me when Taylor comes behind me? And of course, hundreds of his friends did that and the company fired him and said that he breached the contract because he had this photo. 

06:47
So I'm hoping that Taylor comes out. You can't put a Swifty that close. Hey man, look, I'm going to put you right here. She's going to come within a couple of inches. Don't turn around, though. I mean. That doesn't work out. 

07:01 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah, I would have been able to control myself. I'd probably jump up on stage with her and just like hug her and freak out. I'm like the only 47 year old Swifty too. I swear. 

07:14 - David (Host)
No, there's a ton of y'all. There is that. What 2020 special when they had the big debacle about her tickets? I've never seen something that does be mad in my life. 

07:25 - Dana Diaz (Host)
You know what, though, again, it's just I don't know if she's been with narcissists or, you know, experienced some of the things I have, but you know, some of her songs honestly I don't like, but her lyrically she is an artist, she has a way with words, so I absolutely respect her for that. So, but yeah, huge fan. 

07:46 - David (Host)
Now you've kind of touched on a little bit, so I want to dig a little bit into it. You said that you started dealing with narcissistic abuse as a child. Can you just a little bit about that story. 

07:57 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah, absolutely. That's actually going to be the subject of one of the next books coming out, the prequel to the one that's out. And you know I was born to a teenage mother. She didn't want me and it's pretty well known that's not just my idea of things that it's even talked about to this day, unfortunately that I wasn't wanted. But the family thought she should keep me. But she got married when I was seven years old. The man had been in our life since I was about one year old and I never liked him, which is funny when you're they say kids can sense things about people never liked him and I mean, I mean like I was repulsed by him, just something about him, and I couldn't put my finger on it. But again, I was just a kid just trying to live my life. Once we moved in with him after they got married, it got much worse. It, you know it was just narcissistic. 

08:49
Abuse is always insidious. It starts with little things. You know it was when I didn't listen, you know, gripping me by my little scrawny arm or my ankle or something too tightly to where there were purple marks, the verbal abuse. It was always when my, you know, nobody was ever around to hear it, but me. But it started to become a daily occurrence of nobody ever wanted you. I shouldn't have to pay for you. You're not even my child. You're a burden. Your mother doesn't even love you. Nobody's ever gonna. You know, every day I'm hearing this and I would stand up for myself. I was a very, very strong little girl, but standing up for myself made the physical abuse worse, because I wasn't supposed to talk back. 

09:34
You know that I was still generation X. We're still raised with that idea that you respect your elders. And by respect they don't actually mean respect, they mean you do as you say, or you do as you're told and say as you're. You know you watch your mouth. And I didn't. And because I was, I had to stand up for myself. 

09:54
I, like I said earlier, I'd go to my mother, but she was always very emotionally distant from me because, you know, I was just. She was responsible for me, but that was about the extent of our relationship, and so I just didn't have anybody. I knew that I couldn't speak up without consequences. So, you know, I learned to keep my mouth shut, and I call it flying under the radar. I had to just, you know, lock myself in my bedroom and I would try having little friends over and even, you know he was very mean verbally to them as well and, you know, would cut me down in front of them. You know I was always stupid and I didn't know anything and I'm incompetent and incapable, and you know just this narrative about me. 

10:41
And even with family, you know, if something would happen, it's like I would hear my mother and stepfather talk to family like I'm not in the next room, you know, at holidays or celebrations or whatever, oh, that she's so difficult she's. You know, just because I wasn't submitting to him. You know, because I wasn't saying yes, sir, and you know I wasn't being, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, but I was being treated very badly. I mean, the verbal abuse was enough, but when you add the physical, and you know that was pretty rough, it was things like if I like I remember once I tried to pick up the phone to call my mother at work because of the things he was saying to me and he took the phone out of my hand and beat me over the head with it. You know things like that, being drugged down the stairs by my ankles because I was running a little late, having the door removed from my bedroom and then straddled and punched and slapped and for nothing. 

11:40
Nothing, that was really. Nothing warranted that, and I always say, of course I'm biased because I'm me, but I was a pretty straight arrow. I always tested very high in school. Even in first grade they wanted to move me up two grades. I've never to this day smoked a cigarette. I could probably use some weed, honestly, but I've never done it. It's my anxiety sky high. 

12:07
But I was a good girl, is all I'm saying. I even tried to go to a party in high school and ended up calling a cab to go home because it just wasn't my thing. I was not one of those kids that went out and party, and so it's not like I did anything to. You know, there's nothing in my mind that I could think would deserve treatment like that, but I just like to make it clear that I never was one of these kids. 

12:34
I was just going through life like everybody else and it just was that I wasn't his. Even my mother, she was ashamed of me because I was a physical manifestation of her worst shame and her worst regret and it was just really hard for me. So you know I go out in the world. I couldn't wait to get out of their home when I was legally, you know, 18 and able to be on my own. But unfortunately I had a very skewed idea of what love looks like and what a relationship looks like. So I fell right for another narcissist, but a covert one that I didn't see coming, because he was hiding behind this humility and this charming, you know very, you know sweet and just. It wasn't mean right from the get go. So I had no idea. 25 years I spent with him and that ended pretty badly. 

13:31 - David (Host)
Now we're going to dig a little bit into that here in a minute, but I found something very interesting about you that your grandmother said that she felt like that your family was cursed, kind of like a generational abuse. 

13:43 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yes, my grandma, you know I've talked to her more now that I'm in this field, so to speak, in this realm, but you know she had always felt like the women in our family, as strong-willed as we all are, tended to fall for these men who just mistreated us. Now I'm going to say this and I don't want anyone to be offended I'm half Puerto Rican. My mother's side of the family is Puerto Rican and so I was raised by them. So I definitely identify with the Hispanic culture and I think as a culture we tend to be mouthy, loud but we are taught to serve the men. I mean my great-grandma, there was no sitting down to a meal until all the men and the children had their plates and their drinks and everything. Then us women can sit. You know, there was a certain sense of I don't want to say servitude, but of taking care of. We take care of the men and the children first, and that's how I was taught. And again, I don't want to offend anyone out there, I'm just saying what it is, at least from my experience and my family. So you know, I think that maybe that played into it, where you feel like you defer to the man, assuming it's a male-female relationship because that's what you're expected to do, but you're still going to have an opinion and you're still going to say what it is and you know you're still going to be you. It's not that you're losing yourself, but unfortunately some of us ended up in really bad situations. 

15:21
My grandma, unfortunately. Yeah, in my blog I talk a little bit about her, some of her experiences, but you know I don't even call her husband my grandpa, because I only saw him a couple of times in my life. But he was awful to her and you know just a little snippet of my childhood that involves him. I don't recall this, but this was retold to me that when I was maybe around four years old he wanted to see me because I was his only grandchild and he had a very serious alcohol problem. So everybody was nervous about that. 

16:00
But they thought, okay, he seems to be sober today, let him have her for the day, thinking I would be taken to the zoo or something you know fun that a grandpa and a granddaughter could do. He took me to the bar, one of his local bars, and he left with a woman that was not my grandma, obviously, and he left me there, a little girl in Chicago at a bar by myself. Fortunately, because he was a local, they set me up on the bar stool with some orange juice and somebody there said that they knew where he lived and took me in their car back to my grandma and grandpa's house and fortunately my grandma was there to receive me. But you know, these are some of the things. That gives you an idea of what she was dealing with. But she had a really, really bad marriage that to this day it's very sad that it haunts her. 

16:55 - David (Host)
I can feel that though because, like in African-American circles, we're not that far apart in age is the same way, especially those of us who was raised in the South. The woman takes care of the men and the children, and then they sit down tender themselves at some point. Being that both cultures on the Hispanic side and the African-American side can be quite mouthy, there becomes time. It comes time when you get through taking that, and then you say something back you shouldn't, and it's followed by a fist. 

17:22 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah. 

17:22 - David (Host)
Like I told you, I'm also a survivor of childhood abuse. My mother was beaten profusely by my father. I've seen everything from chain to bed strung against walls, you name it. But then the thing on top of that was it's like a pattern Every other man that she came across was either abusive or had a symbols of my dad. My dad was an alcoholic and a drug addict, so if it wasn't the guy that was beating her up, it was the guy that couldn't live without a bottle, even though there was a couple of ones that she didn't meet. That was good, but still we couldn't get out of that stigma. So I kind of feel where your grandma's coming from, and I think it followed me. I'm on my fifth marriage because of abuse from spouses, so I totally feel you. 

18:09 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah, and I think that absolutely, because I've been interviewed so many times, and even people that know me well. If it was that bad, why did you stay? Or how could you not see the red flags? Well, again, covert narcissists, you can't, and even regular narcissists, honestly. I mean, people think like, if he did all this stuff, but we see him and he's nice, or he was at the school and he didn't seem like he was a violent person or no, well, of course not. 

18:40
Do you think I would? I mean, I'd like to think that people would know that I wouldn't fall for like Chucky if I met him on the street, you know, like they're not walking around, like you know, looking like with butcher knives and disheveled hair and clothes. Like no, they are trying to charm everybody and they're trying to mimic normal, respectful. You know they're generous and they're funny and everybody likes them. They'll do anything for everybody, you know, but except for that person at home. That that's their target. But that's how they get you, that's how they lure you in, that's how they fool everybody. 

19:19
But how could I see it coming when? Yeah, just like you said, I mean I was used to somebody making me feel insignificant, unworthy, unlovable, like a piece of crap basically, and he succeeded in doing that and I allowed him to, unfortunately, for 25 years until I got sick and, you know, unfortunately even after the divorce. It actually that's when it got the most violent and where I worried even more about my life and I found out that he actually did indeed want me dead, that I was not paranoid like people were trying to make me believe. Yeah, there's a lot. 

20:00 - David (Host)
So let's talk a little bit about that. You met him. You spent 25 years with him. I mean, how did you meet him? And then, when did all of the abuse begin with you? 

20:09 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Well, I worked in real estate. He walked into my office one day and the irony is I thought he was a jerk. He reminded me very much of my stepfather. I thought he wanted servitude, he felt entitled to servitude and I didn't give it to him Cause I'm like no, I'm good, have a nice day, you know. But unfortunately we had, you know, more contact after that and you know, one night he invited me to his apartment to hang out and I thought, you know, honestly, I'd just come out of a longterm relationship with somebody that wanted to marry me and I was just kind of still trying to get over that because I'm the one that said no, I just knew I could not spend the rest of my life with him. 

20:55
Somebody else who didn't treat me the best cheated on me all the time. That was my main issue, minor details. So I thought, you know, I don't. I like to be open. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe in a different. You know, I'm able to kind of compartmentalize people. Like you know, maybe I don't like you at work, but maybe outside of work we'd be cool. Like you know, there are those relationships that are like that. So I thought, well, it doesn't hurt to go hang out. 

21:22
Well, you know it was not a good night. It was not a good night and there was, he took advantage of me sexually. I didn't want to, but I didn't stop it. I mean, he spit beer on me. He talked about a girl that he had just I guess now we call it ghosting that he had led her on, just to let her go, basically, and that concerned me. I mean, I felt like I was hit the nail on the head with him. I did not misjudge him, he just had all these things to say. 

22:03
Like, after all of this, he kind of we just started talking and having a normal conversation. It was very odd, very strange, but it felt like he, when he kind of sobered up, he was relating a lot to the things we were talking about and I was telling him about, like, my past relationship and my mother and stepfather and all this, and he seemed like he was a black sheep too and he's like oh, it's the two of us against the world, and you and me were a lot more like that. So he was saying all these things and you're talking to a 19 year old girl who all I ever wanted was for somebody to love me, and I was told that nobody ever would. So, yeah, I thought, okay, I could maybe get to know him and see what he's about. And then a week later, next thing I know, he's got me meeting his mom and dad and they were like the nicest I mean it was Mr and Mrs Cleaver and so I thought, okay, after meeting these people, there's no way I'm right about this guy, there's no way that a jerk could have come out of their house Like they were. Just, they were literally the mom and dad that anybody and everybody would wish for. 

23:20
And honestly, looking back, I think I fell in love with them. I wanted parents so badly and I was young, I was naive I'm not saying it's right, but it's just what it was that I thought I'll get to loving him like that. You know we'll get there. You know I don't think love is this. You know isolated emotion, that, yeah, you know people feel butterflies and stuff. That's attraction, that's excitement. That you know I don't look at that as like love. I think that love grows over time and there's so many aspects of it. But I was one of those people. 

23:56 - David (Host)
I just thought, okay, it's not all that bad with him, like, we'll get there, so let's ask the big the question that I'm sure everybody listening is like wondering after that night when he took advantage of you. I know the answer to this, but because I understand it, but let's help people understand it why at that point would you not just leave, never come back, and just talk it up to this guy's just who I thought he was? 

24:21 - Dana Diaz (Host)
So, okay, I'm going to explain the psychological analysis that I have done on myself and people that haven't been here don't understand it and I'll do the best I can to explain it. Growing up, I was very smart. I have a pretty good IQ. Still to this day, my mother and stepfather told me how stupid I am and I don't know anything, and you know I'll never be anything. The only thing, the only thing either one of them that had ever said good about me, was that I was pretty. Only thing is I didn't feel like I was pretty. 

24:58
So you put me in this situation with this man, and I'm not going to lie. What did I learn in high school and college? And you know, I was not a girl that slept around, I was a good girl. But what did guys want If they found you attractive? They wanted to be with you and I just took his eagerness to be with me, even though I felt like I mean I definitely in the moment I did not want to do that and I did not want it to happen. But, like I said, I didn't stop it because I thought, okay, he wants me like somebody. I have been told I'm unwanted and unlovable, I'm a piece of crap, but I thought he has found worth in me. So, even if it's just for my body and my appearance and that's all it is, it was enough for me. And I'm sorry, like looking back, it makes me sad that that was my thinking 30 years ago, but that's what I was thinking. He wanted me and it made me feel wanted. 

26:07 - David (Host)
Well, the thing is too. I call it a breaking technique, right? Because narcissists honed in on a person's weaknesses and you don't even have to tell them what they are right, they can just hone in on it just by looking at you. So if that is what he's thinking, I'm going to get her over here. Nobody really wants her. I'm going to do this. She's not going to say anything, and then at the end I'm going to still get her. 

26:29
This is what, like you said, people who have never walked this road, seen it at all, don't understand, right, and they're going to raise me because people, oh my gosh, she could have just walked out, she could have said no, the same thing with people. You could have ran. You had to go to the grocery store. You got to think of the psychology of that. And there is fear, even if they don't come out directly and say if you leave them to kill you. 

26:51
There is fear that is interwoven in the things that they say, how they put it, the looks, the way they act. They don't got to come out and say if you disappear, I'm going to find you. When I do, you're going to get it. Just by the near, certain words or things they say conveys that, and even in your mind. When you're in the middle of a grocery store, you can see a FBI and a cop's in there. You're like man, you know what I could tell them right now here go to jail. But what happens if it don't work out the way that I want it to? What's going to be the aftermath of that and that's what I'm glad you're here, I've had other guests on the show and I always try to convey this is that it's not as easy to leave as you think and you can't judge people if you've never walked in. That Exactly. 

27:34 - Dana Diaz (Host)
And that's the comment. Now that people have read you know the story of that marriage, read the book. I have gotten a lot of questions of well, if it was so bad, why didn't you leave? Why did you stay? Well, my obvious answer is you know, it's a nice idea. Just like when people say, oh, if my husband or wife cheated on me, I'd be out of there. Well, guess what? You know how many times he cheated on me before and after we were married. And guess what? You know what? And it's not that easy. You don't always have the financial ability. There's kids involved. We had a son together. 

28:11
You know, I thought I was doing the right thing by staying for my son. And there's the spiritual beliefs. If you're a spiritual person I was born and raised Catholic you don't get a divorce. You stay, you stick it out. You made the choice to marry him and, honestly, I did and I firmly believed. You know, I knew who he was. I still married him, I still had this child with him. We built a life. We're going to stick this out, we're going to make the best of it. 

28:37
And you know there were a million other reasons. And fear was another one. Fear for me because as time went on, it just got worse and worse and worse, to the point where, when you're in like a fight or flight mode I'm sure people have heard this term where you're so scared that you're heart racing, you're sweating, you're panicking, either that you're going to get ready for a fight they say it's similar to like getting ready to fight a lion that's chasing you or you're going to run. And I'm a runner. I, literally and figuratively, that's all I've got. I'm like all of a hundred pounds and five three. I'm little, I can't fight, I run so and I do. 

29:23
When I see trouble with a person, a situation, I'm out, I'm not, I'm not playing around with that, and just because I, I it's my way of guarding myself, but with him, unfortunately feeling spiritually, financially, because of our family, all these things, I felt stuck there and so I lived with all this fight or flight stuff. 

29:48
I just was always panicking. So cortisol, which is the stress hormone that's running through your body like adrenaline when you're in that fear, I had so much of it running through me that it eventually made me sick and gave me a lung disease and all these autoimmune flares and everything else that by the time I got sick and was diagnosed I just said that's it. You know my body. The doctor told me I wish my body was shutting down. I have a little oxygen machine. It's ridiculous the things that I dealt with. They said it's like having COPD and fibromyalgia all at the same time and it was because of living in fear and I just said I that's when I was like I'm not doing this anymore. But unfortunately he didn't like that Didn't work for him. 

30:33 - David (Host)
And I'm assuming that even though he started this beforehand, the things get worse for you after you got married. Oh, absolutely. 

30:42 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Once we got married I was absolutely his that wedding ring, you know that was. I always say it was like my leash. You know that was my leash. And then when technology came out with like all the cell phones, smartphones, gps technology, then the video doorbells, all this stuff, everything I did was monitored. At one point I was positive I even had a GPS on my vehicle, but I, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't be like under my car, like looking for it, because that would be obvious. He obviously knows I have no business under a car, I'm not one of those girls that knows how to change oil. So yeah, I was very well monitored and if I veered off of anything that I should or shouldn't be doing, according to him, I was made very well aware of it. But he also drank a lot, a lot every night, and that's when things would get really bad. So it was hard to sleep. I always slept kind of with one eye open and then after we had our son it got even worse because he didn't like that. Now I was giving all my focus and attention to this newborn baby and not to him, and I mean I'm talking immediately. Within the first couple of weeks he was. He did not like that. When he picked up our son, his son would scream until I was holding him. He wanted mom. Well, he was in my belly for nine months on the only voice he ever heard. 

32:22
Narcissists tend to isolate people. I should make that clear to the audience. So over time, they don't like your family, so you stop going to your family events, even holidays. They don't like your friends. They make it difficult, guilt to you. They just it's not good if you have friends. 

32:44
So I was at the point where I couldn't go out anywhere. Even if I went to the dollar store for some cat food, I was gone too long. I was screwing somebody. Out all these accusations, god forbid. I talked to a friend on the phone. He didn't like me talking because he was trying to watch TV and If I tried to text anybody I was hiding stuff from him. I was screwing somebody. It was all this stuff. I couldn't even go to Sunday mass at my church without him accusing me of going there to screw the, the old man priest. Everything was an Issue. 

33:22
So it just got easier to just not, just to not do anything. I went to work and I came home the end I didn't go anywhere. Once I got home, I didn't talk to anybody no family, no, nobody, no friends. I just stopped. I was his wife and I was my kid's mother, and that was that. And I. He didn't even like me reading books or being on the Computer, on the internet. He did not want me influenced by the outside, he just wanted to keep me, and he even told me at one point that our house was my prison and that I better get used to it. So that was my life. So I didn't try to do anything, you know. 

34:03
And again with it with now, with these blink cameras and the ring doorbells, he was watching every move I made and I would get text messages oh, your home, five minutes later than you normally are. What'd you do? Where were you? You know all this stuff harassing me all day with texts at work. It's a lot, it's a lot, and that doesn't even cover, you know, like I said it, just it. 

34:26
At home, things were volatile, especially when he drank. You know, I locked him out once because he was scaring me with his. He would get very hostile and aggressive. He liked to kind of I don't know how you call it kind of like when a goose comes at you With their you know wings out at the side that's like how he always like puffed up his shoulders and his chest and would like try to intimidate we with his size. 

34:51
And you know, I locked him out one night because he was scaring me and and he tried to break in with a crowbar and I was afraid that he was actually gonna break. It was a glass door that we had going into our house. I was actually afraid he was gonna break it because, I mean it, it was almost Flexing, I could see it and he was so angry so I thought I better just open the door and he bust in. And he swung the crowbar at my head and I ducked just in time and I have very slow reflexes, so I don't know how I missed that, but I would have been dead. No, no doubt I would have been dead and you know there were other things that happened to, but it just it was not safe there. But when you're not safe you're scared to leave. You don't just leave. And I wasn't gonna leave without my kid and he had always threatened that I would never see my son again If I tried to leave. So I stayed. 

35:45 - David (Host)
And that's always the case, right? They threatened with a kid or an animal. Even now, restraining orders that asked you have pets and what do you want the pet to go? And the thing is it, my dad was the same way, except for he was in the military. He was in the Marines. Perfect for narcissists, because the fact, since they moved us, he didn't have to do it, and that's another thing. 

36:07
Nars is like to move you, so you're far away from anyone that you have Contact with oh yeah and so we end up being moved to South Carolina because that's where they stationed him and because, like you said, of all the technology, I can tell you the one tech giant that's trying to do something about that is Apple. We know they've built in certain things into their phones. There's one called safety check. Now, so you were in a narcissistic relationship where the man decided or the woman decided didn't know where you were. Now you hit a button. It totally eliminates that, takes them out, clears them out. 

36:38
Air tags was the number one question. Well, can we track people with them? No, they put safeguards so that you can't track a person, because they probably figured that's what people's gonna do. Right, and I do think that these Tech giants, these tech companies more of them need to do more things to to do safeguards like this. Yeah, I have ring bells and cameras outside my house not the spot, my wife, but because I have neighbors around here that like to do mischievous things. But I can Read other cases where people's like, yeah, he has a camera pointing right inside the house. You can see everything I'm doing, so the moment I move, he knows. So they had to be a very scary time for you. So, after all of this time, you went through all of this abuse, at what point did you finally Pop up and say this is it no more, I got to get out of here. 

37:24 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Well, like I said, I think it was when I was diagnosed which was towards the end of 2019, you know, I had been diagnosed with upper airway resistance syndrome, which, like I said, is like having COPD and fibromyalgia all at the same time. I had been every specialist I had had. I'd been to so many doctors. None of them really knew what to do with me and you know they just wanted to throw a pill each symptom, but that wasn't going to solve the problem. It took Mayo Clinic on running the cortisol test and in fact they thought they compromised the sample because my Levels were so high they had never seen them so high that they ran the test again Just to confirm that my cortisol levels were indeed that high. To give people an idea, your cortisol levels are tested five times. If you have a cortisol test, it different intervals throughout a 24-hour period. At any one of those intervals your levels should be somewhere between 100 and 6 or 700, and mine were consistently over 2500. So I, my body, basically thought Like there was a cancer or something in me that it had to eradicate, and so it was basically Killing itself. It was depleting. My white blood cell count just fell To autoimmune rates. I was having a lot of. I had a, two or three dozen symptoms every day that would plague me. It was really awful. But since I've been out of that situation I'll never be, you know, healed fully. But I'm healthier, you know, except one point I During that time too, this turning point for me in a two week period I had dropped so much weight I was only 93 pounds and I was skeletal and my skin was gray and I mean I couldn't breathe. 

39:14
And it took the doctor sitting me down and saying Dana, your levels, everything in your body, every major organ, is just shutting down. You are at base survival rates. Your body's doing everything just to breathe and keep your heart beating. And he said I cannot tell you what to do, but your life circumstances have got to change, otherwise you will die. And that's a scary thing to hear when you're just in your early 40s and you think you have more than half that time left to live. And I had a kid. I wanted to see him grow up and just the idea of him being left with his dad was enough to give me the will. And I just said I had to finally actually respect myself enough and love myself enough to say, okay, screw you, I got to take care of me, and that means getting out of this situation. 

40:12
So yeah, unfortunately, when I talked to an attorney and he had a little homework to do before I could file for divorce, we went into the shelter in place during COVID and then I was stuck in a house with him. For how many months? But fortunately, when the shelter in place was lifted, like a typical narcissist, he had caught on that. I wasn't messing around anymore, I was done with him, and so he moved out in the middle of the day without telling anybody and told everybody that I was harassing him and abusing him. So he had to leave. He couldn't sit down and have a talk and there was no working it out. He had to leave me and I was like you know what? I don't even care what people think. Let them think what they want, I'm done, I'm out. Now I don't have to fight to get him out of the house, so good for us. 

41:07 - David (Host)
Well, now you got all that marriage. We do know that you're married again. Yes, not too long over span. It's all about three years here. What made you wanna marry your current husband, doug, what's different about that, and how did you decide that you wanted to do that again after coming out of 25 years of abuse? 

41:27 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Honestly, I didn't wanna ever get married again and it wasn't because I was, like you know, shunning love and marriage. I didn't have like a bad. I was just like I knew I mean, my body needed to heal. I needed some space and time. I still had to get my kid through his last year of high school and get him through technical school. I had started writing the book. I was just like you know, it's me time. 

41:53
But my husband I'd known him a very long time. I was actually I was friends with a sister-in-law for probably 15, 16 years, I should say. We live in a small town, so it's one of these towns where everybody knows everybody. So I'd known his family, many of them, his dad, his sister, you know, for years. My son grew up with some of my husband's nephews. They're still very close friends. 

42:17
So it wasn't like I went to the bar or went on a dating app and met the guy. We already knew each other and he had actually been a really tremendous support to me through the end of the. I mean, at one point he felt like he needed to just remove me from the situation before you know, because he saw my health withering and he cared about me and didn't wanna see me go down that road. But no, when he made his feelings known, I mean, certainly I'd always liked him very much, but I'm one of those people like, crappy marriage or not, I was still legally married. So I just put my blinders on, like, yeah, we'd be great together, but like no, I'm not trying to be that girl and you don't wanna be with that girl, so let's just not go there. And he was very, very respectful of that. 

43:04
But once everything was done and over with to be honest with you, it was after my ex became the most violent within a three day period and this was after the divorce within a three day period, my ex had shown up on my doorstep in the middle of the night with a knife. The one night and the second night he was screaming insults and shot a gun a few times outside my bedroom window. And then I had to go through the courts and everything. They would not give me an order of protection, it was all this other rigmarole. But that's when my now husband, doug, kind of stepped in and he said honestly that just all scared me so much I thought I was gonna lose you. 

43:44
So I just want you to be my wife and so we decided I mean, we talked about it. You know like I'm like I don't need to be married again, and neither do you. We can just be really good friends. But you know what we sat down, I think, later in life and you can probably relate to this because you've been married remarried is that you're not 20 or 30 or whatever age. It's not your first marriage. You have an idea about what you want your life to look like, and does this person compliment that and is that what they want? Because you don't need to get married again and you don't need to mess around with you know baloney or getting you know. But we both wanted the same thing and we are very happy together. I'm very glad that I finally said yes to him. 

44:35 - David (Host)
Well, I wish you the best with that. Yes, I've been married and divorced. I go on several podcasts now to tell my story because, with you being Hispanic as well, you know, and on the men side of that, we don't talk about the abuses that's happened to us. We need to talk about that because many men go through it. But in my case, you know, I got married when I was 19 for the first time because I wanted to prove that I could be a good husband and that there was somebody out there that would do what my dad didn't. And, of course, I just jumped in from one to the next, to the next and then, finally, about the fourth one, I'm like I'm done. And then I met my current wife now and I'm like I've been married four times. Here's what all happened and here it is, and we got married. So I wish you and Doug the best, because now we just celebrated 21 years of marriage together in August. 

45:21 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Oh, congratulations. 

45:23 - David (Host)
Thank you. So it does work, but with us, with people like us I keep saying this on every podcast. When I have someone like you on is because it's true. Amanda Blackwood was just on the show. We said the same thing. We are broken people and we're always gonna be broken to a degree. We just have learned how to heal ourselves and how to cope. And when we get partners, our partner needs to understand that for the rest of our life, because what we've been through, we're gonna be broken. If you're signing up for that, you have to know what you're getting into and what Doug being able to see what you was going through on that level and still wanting to marry you, it truly is because he loved you and wanted to protect you, and I know you guys would be great for many years to come. 

46:06 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Yeah, he is exactly what I needed and but thank you for saying that, because that's a thing a lot of people don't understand and I've been trying to talk a little about that too was loving after trauma. It is possible. And people say, no, you need all this time to heal. You should go through all this stuff first. You should be alone for a certain amount of time. 

46:27
There's nothing that I just don't believe, that I think it depends on the person and, honestly, doug has helped me heal more than I could have healed on my own, because healing is a rough, rough thing to go through when you are voluntarily putting yourself back in places that you wish you didn't remember and you're having to feel all that stuff all over again and really rip it apart to get to the root of it. That's some nasty stuff. It's not fun and it takes a long time and it takes a very gentle, patient, understanding and truly sensitive and loving human being to hold your hand through that. And without him honestly I know it sounds silly like I'm biased because he's my husband, but I honestly don't think I could have done it without him. 

47:18
If I had gone through a lot of that healing therapy by myself, I'd probably be in fetal position in the corner, crying, still thinking nobody would ever love me or want me. And he reminds me every day, even on the days that I don't like myself because I have him. He's like yeah, you're not my favorite today, but I still love you, and I need that melody. I need to hear that because for so long I heard something else, and so he helps me with my self-talk and my self-love and I just adore the man. He's amazing and I'm glad that you found your person too. 

47:52 - David (Host)
Well, thank you, and I always say that's why I say that people like yourself are very brave to come, even come on a podcast or wanna write a book, because I've said this to others before every time you come on a show, whether it's a podcast or you write a book or you talk to somebody about it on the street, we have to relive that to a degree, and nothing was more prevalent than that, than the guest I've come on pretty soon whose daughter committed suicide at 15 last year and you can just see it. And the thing is is that's what I try to tell people is that every time they tell this story, they're reliving that to a large degree. Whether we've healed from it or not, it's just trauma. We always will know and remember. You say that now that he's gone, you're remarried. What happened to your ex-husband? Is he still around bothering people or did he finally move on? 

48:44 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Oh yeah. Well, he finally stopped bothering me when he found another gal that he moved in. Just like me. I was moved in within six weeks. I think it took two months for her to move in. But that's fine with me, as long as he's got somebody else to distract him. He leaves me alone. But I just my husband laughs. 

49:06
I always say we all gotta just stay in our lane. So that's all I'm trying to do. I'm gonna stay in my lane and mind my business. It's their relationship is their business. Everybody's a grown person. They make their choices, for whatever reasons. And just because he I will say this too, even after everything he has done to me I cannot sit here and say he would be that way in every relationship. The two people in every relationship have a different dynamic, whether she's it or not. I can't tell you, don't know, don't care honestly, cause it's off of me. But if he found somebody and they're good, great, fabulous. But I do think about them often because she brought her two daughters in that house with her and I pray every day that they don't ever have to endure anything near what I did. 

49:57 - David (Host)
I do too. I've always my mom always raised me and said you have to believe people can change. I have my thought patterns on that. I have interviewed somebody same thing. I asked her the question do you think he's the same way? And she's like no, he's totally different with this one. And but he took digs at her right and came back and said well, you deserve this and she doesn't. Again, trying to gaslight right the situation of what you did, why should people go out and get a copy of GASPING FOR AIR and read that? 

50:27 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Well, if you have ever been in any kind of toxic relationship, if you got any issues with people that are narcissists, you will be able to relate to it. That is the reason I wrote the book, but I also wanted people to understand the physical consequences of it. But I will also add that I have met some mental health and legal professionals who read it and said that it has helped them to have a perspective an accurately verbalized perspective on the mentality of a victim of abuse, because they're trying to help people that are still very much in it and just don't always have the self-awareness or the ability to express what they're going through. So it's helpful to a lot of people. But I've also been told that even if you just want a good book about a really awful, awful relationship, that it's a fast read. It's a good read. It's exciting. 

51:27
I wish I could think that of my life. I didn't think it was exciting so much as devastating and damaging. But hey, entertainment's good too. So definitely something. I've had men and women read it and get something out of it. So give it a shot. 

51:44 - David (Host)
Well, what's next that we can look forward to from Dana, as Dias going down the line? 

51:50 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Oh, dana's a busy girl, so Dana has her website, danastscom. My blog is on there. I try to post a blog every month. I've been on this podcast tour. I've been on about two dozen podcasts and I think I have over 20 in the next couple of weeks. So talking about various aspects of narcissistic abuse, anywhere from motherhood to miscarriages, to toxic relationships, to the financial abuse, sexual abuse, everything in between. I'm also being urged to start a YouTube channel, so we'll be looking for that sooner than later. Lord knows, I've been given the gift of gab, so that shouldn't be too hard for me, and I am in the process of publishing the prequel and sequel to Gasp'n for Error. The prequel will talk about my childhood and the abuse I experienced there, and the sequel will be. I'm getting pressured by people that have read Gasp'n for Error that they want more. They want to know what happens next, so that is definitely coming as well within the next year. 

52:56 - David (Host)
Well, man, I thought I was busy. I think you got me beat. 

53:00 - Dana Diaz (Host)
I try. I got like the Rocky theme in my head every morning when I get up. I get to it. Got to get something going. 

53:09 - David (Host)
Well, dana, I thank you gratefully for coming on the show. It has been enlightening. You've added so much to this narcissistic abuse conversation. I've had several other guests on here and each one of you guys that come on here bring something different to the table. You are definitely a brave woman and the door is open If you ever want to come back on the show. You always have an open invitation. 

53:34 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Oh, thank you so much. Well, I'll definitely reach out. When the next two books come out, we'll meet again and have a conversation. 

53:40 - David (Host)
Sounds good. Appreciate it. 

53:42 - Dana Diaz (Host)
Thank you. 

53:46 - David (Host)
All right, guys, that was the fabulous Dana SDS. You can learn everything you need to know about her on my website, truecarbonauthor'scom. Also at her website, would you be linked down below? You can also get your copy of Gasping for Air the Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse at Amazon and any place you can find books and if you are a member of Kindle Unlimited, you can read it for free. I always remind you of this. Dana does not get credit just for downloading it. You do have to turn the pages. So let's get that book, let's read it and hopefully it can heal people out there. All right, so, guys, I think he wants again for tuning in. I know you have many options in True Crime Interview Podcast. I'm grateful for the last year you have chosen me. Hope you're being safe and good to yourself and each other, and always remember, always stay humble. An act of kindness can make someone's day. A little love and compassion can go a long way, and remember that there is an extraordinary person in all of us. I'll catch you, guys, in a minute. 

55:00 - Jaquie (Host)
Don't forget to rate, comment and subscribe. Join us on social media. One link to the link tree has it all. Feel free to drop us a line at truecrimeandauthors at gmailcom. Cover art and logo designed by Arslan. Sound mixing and editing by David McClam. Intro script by Sophie Wilde and David McClam. Theme music, legendary by New Alchemist. Introduction and ending credits by Jackie Voice. See you next time on True Crime Authors and Extraordinary People.