Sept. 2, 2026
Lindsay Clancy: DEADLOCKED
Apple Podcasts 
RSS Feed This episode is focused on the jury’s deadlock after days of deliberation. He explains the charges, the anti deadlock instruction, and why he thinks the case may be heading toward a mistrial.McClam also connects the trial to prior high profile cases like Karen Read and Andrea Yates, and gives his view on how manslaughter, criminal responsibility, and jury pressure could shape the final outcome.
Key topics
- In this episode, David McClam breaks down the current status of the Lindsey Clancy jury after four days of deliberation and two deadlock notes.
- He explains the possible outcomes the jury is weighing: first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and not guilty by reason of insanity, or not criminally responsible.
- McClam outlines how a deadlock note works and why the judge first sends jurors back to deliberate before giving the anti deadlock instruction.
- He argues that the anti deadlock instruction can pressure jurors to change their vote just to end deliberations.
- McClam compares the situation to his own experience serving on a jury and says peer pressure can cause a verdict to shift unfairly.
- He says a third deadlock note would force the judge to declare a mistrial, since further pressure could be seen as coercing a verdict.
- McClam explains what happens after a mistrial, including potential juror interviews by both the prosecution and the defense to understand where the case broke down.
- He discusses the possibility of a retrial and says the same judge should stay on the case because he has been fair and impartial.
- He pushes back on comparisons between Lindsey Clancy and Andrea Yates, saying the prosecution is oversimplifying that precedent.
- He says adding manslaughter late in the trial may have given the jury a compromise option that complicates a straightforward acquittal or conviction.
- He notes that the jury is made up of nine women and three men, but he does not think gender alone explains the holdout votes.
Timestamps
(00:00) Opening the update and the jury deadlock status
(01:35) Why the Lindsey Clancy case is stalled after four days
(02:34) The charges the jury can still choose from
(03:32) What a deadlock note means in court
(04:29) The anti deadlock instruction and how it pressures jurors
(05:54) Why McClam calls this the second strike
(07:11) His criticism of the anti deadlock instruction
(08:09) Personal jury experience and pressure to conform
(10:04) How a mistrial would affect both sides
(11:23) What prosecutors and defense attorneys learn after a mistrial
(12:30) Why retrial strategy matters
(14:18) Comparing the case to Karen Read
(14:45) Correcting the Andrea Yates comparison
(16:37) What a retrial would mean for the Commonwealth
(17:06) Fair jury concerns in Massachusetts
(18:56) Why manslaughter may be complicating deliberations
(20:22) How manslaughter can become the compromise verdict
(21:47) Public reaction and harsh online commentary
(22:45) Personal reflections on abuse, trauma, and postpartum mental health
(23:42) Why he thinks the gender makeup of the jury is not the deciding factor
(24:09) Final verdict watch and why one more deadlock note ends it
(25:14) Closing thoughts and sign off
Notable Quotes
“We are playing legal baseball and now this is the second strike.”
“If the jury sends a third deadlock note, that is it.”
“An act of kindness can make someone’s day.”
Transcript
WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_01]: We are playing legal baseball, and we are on the second strike.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to True Crime, offers and extraordinary people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The podcast where we bring two passions together.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The show that gives new meaning to the old adage.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Truth is stranger than fiction, and reminding you that there is an extraordinary person in all of us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here is your host, David McLean.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to be about a bunch of the episode of True Crime?
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[SPEAKER_01]: All those are the extraordinary people, of course, I'm your man.
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[SPEAKER_01]: David McClab.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, if you guys haven't already, Michigan follows an Alba Social Media.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One link to a link tree will give you every place you need to go pertain to the show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And like I always like to remind you, if you are someone or you know someone who feels like hurting themselves or someone else, please leave this episode in dial 988.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It is the suicide prevention hotline, they can get you the help that you need.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in case no one else has told you this today, let me be the first one to tell you I do care and I do need you to be here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing worth your life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, guys, far start this episode.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say we have lost many of celebrities this week or last week.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I should say at this point, including the great.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Dali, pardon me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to say, rest in peace.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So them, I will be doing a piece on Dali at least here pretty soon.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But rest in peace to the queen of country, one of the biggest humanitarians that I know and one person that's outside of my race is that did a lot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: for the African American race.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, I just want to say, risk and peace to dolly into the others that we lost.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hayden Penetir, Tim Curry, Michael Wright, maybe August and peace.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so on to the topic at hand, it has been four days, just about 30 hours of deliberation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We still have no verdict, and the jury has now sent out two debt lock notes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: saying that they cannot come to a unanimous decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to come in real quick and kind of explain where we are now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What happens in case you guys are not up to legal jargon?
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not a lawyer, but I've said on many juries and I do know what these things and tell because I've researched them for doing these kind of true crime things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I do know something about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to come and give you guys a little update on what's happening right now in the Lindsey Clancy case right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is day 2627.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so lost in the case.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we are on four days of the liberation and about 30 hours.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The jury has already sent out two dead lug notes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, let me tell you what the options were that the jury can decide on what to charge her with.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's first degree murder, second degree murder, and manslaughter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Those three charges,
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[SPEAKER_01]: The jury have to believe that Lanzi was criminally responsible at the time that she killed her children.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The other two options are guilty or
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[SPEAKER_01]: guilty by a reason of insanity, but did they call it something now guilty by not being criminally responsible, some of that nature.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But for like what I'm going to call it, what I use always be called guilty by a reason of insanity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Those two charges means that the jury has to believe that Lindsey had no criminal responsibility at all at the time that she killed her
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[SPEAKER_01]: to notes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I believe the first one came in day two and the second came today and day four as of this recording.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me tell you where the legal stance is because they have sent out what we call a debt lock note.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what that means is they sent this note to the judge and say, hey, just per your instruction from the get go we've done this, but we cannot come to that
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, taking your time to do this, but I'm going to ask that you go back and you continue to liberate and see if you can come to a conclusion.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now notice the judge is very neutral.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The judge gives no legal instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He just says, go back try to come to a decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: jury gets up, goes back today's later today they come back and say, Hey, we went back, we delivery the way you said judge, we still cannot come to your net in this decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Just now calls them out and now gives them what many states have different names for it, but it's commonly known as the anti-detlock instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What that instruction basically says is,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, underdoing your right, we don't think there's a better jury that could do this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in all these cases, we have 12 people that we need to kind of get all your 12 minds to agree.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, if you are voting not guilty, you need to look at pretty much the side of the guilty and say, okay, let's re-examadis.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, is there possible she's guilty and vice versa?
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you're guilty, but you don't, we need to look at the side of the not guilty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and a misdicision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now that weighs a little bit harder saying, you know, keep it open mind, go back, re-examine that same evidence of all y'all are seeing as you can come to.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I said we're now playing legal baseball, and now this is the second strike, because if the jury says a third deadlock note that is it, the judge cannot go any further and that is by ruling of the Supreme Court, because of the fact that the Supreme Court and other higher courts has come on pretty much said, all right, pass that time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you keep telling these people to go back and negotiate, you know, basically you're holding him hostage at this point, you're pretty much telling them your service is not going to be done to you come to some kind of averted.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now that looks like coursing averted.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like the judge is really putting pressure on you to come back with the guilty or not guilty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You got to decide something or you're not going home.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the judge is now legally locked into having to declare a mistrial if a third note comes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's already used his first two strikes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The first one was to send hit them back.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Nicely, no instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The second was to give them the anti-dent lot instruction, which he did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The third doubt was to say, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we'll do it for your service.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You may be going home now in declared mistrial.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about why I think they're hung up and what's going happen in the case of this is a mistrial because this is where we're hitting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But first, I want to tell you why I do not like the anti deadlock instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I hate it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I really wish that the Supreme Court and others would have said, hey, if they come out one time deadlock on that second time sitting in home, here is why.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're asking somebody to pretty much go change their mind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're asking people that has looked at all of the evidence at this point, whether you're guilty or not guilty, you've made a decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for more than 48 hours, you've stood on said decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: but you're getting as a change or mind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In the minds of the week, now I'm not saying anybody Jewish week, you know, mind of the week is not of the regular thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll week with a lot of things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that you are a week when it comes to peer pressure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In the mind of the week of somebody who can't be peer pressure, you can lean on this person so hard to get them do what they want you to do, depending on the circumstance that they will vote the way that you want them to vote.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm not just making this up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have first 10 knowledge of this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys ever heard my episodes back in the day while I talk about sitting on the jury because they wanted to go have the Easter ham, this is the case in point why I do not like the anti-
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[SPEAKER_01]: deadlock instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because in that case, we sent out that we were deadlocked one time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We never made it to the second.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was because I was weak.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He was being nearly the eyes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you that was the standouts.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we're not going to do this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We want to come back two, three, four, five, six weeks if it took that to get to a verdict or to just tell the judge that we are forever deadlocked.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of these other people doing what I think they should have done, which is still in their conviction, they felt that he was guilty, okay fine, and we send another note to the judge, then we send a third note to the judge, then we just let them retry it, know they all switched their vote to us.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I pointed out that this cat was a black guy, and I, and there's only two black jurors, and it just so happens that the black jurors is the one that was holding out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Even though there was another lady at the end who wasn't black that was teeterin, but because the fact that they put so much pressure on her, she just went with, where everybody else wanted to go, it was her guilty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's why I don't like that instruction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it wasn't for us that young man would have been fine again, I don't know if he'd go through indesend never got that part that far because I just seen the evidence of the cops gave and I'm like based on this, he didn't do anything.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can even get a cocktail of story straight.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But they changed their vote to hours just so they can go home, didn't have to come back that next week because they all had extended their cases in Easter hands with him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is the same thing that can happen in the Lindsey Clanzi case.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody has an anniversary coming up, if somebody has a towel that'd be doing the performance coming up, they may change their vote to get out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that goes against the instruction that you get at the beginning of becoming a
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[SPEAKER_01]: You, the judge, ask you every day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have something that is pending that you can no longer be a Jewer?
10:34.869 --> 10:41.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it will set you back a little bit, but you still got six other people waiting in the wings that can take these bots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But...
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we are.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So what happens if this case goes to a mistrial, which it looks like that's where we're hitting?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, once the judge calls a mistrial, the prosecution and the defense attorneys can do something that they've never had the opportunity to do this whole entire time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and that is step foot into the liberation room or conduct the meeting out in the hallway.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What they're looking for is for jurors that are left behind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, everyone else kicked rocks.
11:15.288 --> 11:24.613
[SPEAKER_01]: They left, but you have a few jurors that are sitting behind or waiting because they're willing to talk to the prosecution and to the defense.
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[SPEAKER_01]: so that they can tell them why they voted the way they did, and what happened in the liberation room that caused the mistrial.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now here where the evidence comes in for both, because there is no questions off limits.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution and the DA can ask the jurors as many questions as they want at any way that they want to see where their case went wrong.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So in the case of the prosecution, they want to know, okay, what made you vote that she was not guilty or not criminally responsible?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the defense wants to know what made you feel like she was criminally responsible in guilty of this charge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What they're now trying to do at least a prosecution who has
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[SPEAKER_01]: can they turn their case around the second time to retry this case?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Or do we walk out with the exact same verdict or outcome that we just had?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to remind you of one of the other biggest cases that happened in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts recently.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That was Karen Reed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Karen Reed was found guilty of peeled came back and this year was let go,
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to tell you I don't believe Carrie was guilty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've yet to do that case, but there's so much so much evidence that point of fall with that to the ridiculous.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, so they don't know if they want that outcome.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The other one is that a lot of the George chains their mind where they said on guilty, they went to night guilty after re-looking at all the evidence.
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[SPEAKER_01]: did the jury do what they were told to do and we're not able to consider things that was outside in our presented to them aka the Patrick did it theory.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They could not consider that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So after they gather all this information that they've never had privy did they wouldn't put them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to get all the information.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Then it goes into if the prosecution decides they want to retry the case.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If they decide to retry the case, they will follow the documents and then it will go on the court calendar and then a new trial with a new jury.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, sometimes a new judge, sometimes the same judge, but definitely the jury changes pants.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If they retry this case, if it comes to that, I do hope they keep this saying judge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that this judge has been fair.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's been very impartial.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He had not taken anybody side.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He has jumped the defense as much as he jumped the prosecution when there was something wrong.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's pretty much invested in this case at this point.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I really don't believe another judge could do this case.
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[SPEAKER_01]: any better.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if they retry this case, I don't know what's going to happen, bro.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm still reserving my thoughts that do have a big episode, quote out when this verdict comes through.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to let you guys know that yeah, this is the case of the century.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I would go
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[SPEAKER_01]: So other than the care and recays, I also want to make note of the case, they keep comparing this one to Andrea Yates, how the difference there, I'm going to point out in my final episode.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to point out, you know, the Commonwealth, the prosecution, got up there, I didn't like, oh, Andrea Yates, she tried to convince suicide server times, she went down and then what would happen?
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[SPEAKER_01]: She was found clearly not responsible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she was let go, that is not what happened.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys want to know the truth, I give you this to Big Andrea Yatesos found guilty originally.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Upon appeal, Andrew Yates was found not criminally responsible by a reason of insanity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So don't let the commonwealth, why do you?
15:15.840 --> 15:20.803
[SPEAKER_01]: They're making the sound like that this is the exact same case that Lindsey Clinton has was there's a whole lot of differences.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that in the case before her, they had no problem finding Andrew Yates not guilty and just let her go.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she's decided that she wants to stay in the military in her own.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's about the only part of the guy right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
15:34.551 --> 15:40.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Andrew Yates, since she has been a file not guilty, did has come up many times to be let go.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she herself is saying, I want to stay here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is why I need to be her defensive turning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Still keeps in contact with her to this day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just seen an interview with him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They still talk.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He goes and visits and takes her favorite coffee.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, Andrew Yates has decided that's where she needs to be.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not because though,
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[SPEAKER_01]: The law says she has to stay there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They've been trying to kick her out for several years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: More about that coming on the pipeline.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I wonder point out that they keep making reference to this.
16:10.661 --> 16:11.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't include an argument.
16:11.921 --> 16:22.285
[SPEAKER_01]: And how, you know, all of the people found her now guilty, no, she was found guilty originally, appealed and then found not guilty.
16:22.785 --> 16:29.088
[SPEAKER_01]: That becomes the other part of why the prosecution has to decide, do we just let this go?
16:30.908 --> 16:39.091
[SPEAKER_01]: because even though the commonwealth didn't want to tell you the whole two minute days case, oh, they know exactly how the case turned out.
16:39.851 --> 16:42.512
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that there was a guilty verdict before not guilty.
16:43.252 --> 16:47.474
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that the prosecution and your Yades case at that point now lost the case.
16:48.014 --> 16:50.495
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the right of the defense to appeal that's what they did.
16:50.915 --> 16:52.275
[SPEAKER_01]: So now they have to decide.
16:52.355 --> 16:57.297
[SPEAKER_01]: If we take this case and retry it, do we run the risk?
16:58.487 --> 17:03.410
[SPEAKER_01]: of having a non guilty or not guilty plea or verdict.
17:03.450 --> 17:22.680
[SPEAKER_01]: I should say at this point, the other thing I want to point out is I'm not really sure that they can retry the case in Massachusetts or at least that same city, because there is no one in this free world that's not sitting on that jury already that can come and tell me I don't know nothing about the Lindsey
17:24.410 --> 17:26.111
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has been enthralled.
17:26.611 --> 17:28.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has been knee-deep in it.
17:29.273 --> 17:33.015
[SPEAKER_01]: Every news outlet, every true crime outlet has covered it.
17:33.455 --> 17:34.776
[SPEAKER_01]: Know what you haven't heard about it.
17:35.236 --> 17:46.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the one witness of the good or names of the defense one to bring in at one time had to answer the point that she even watched the case up until Reddington comes out to her and say, hey, I don't want to use you as a witness.
17:47.203 --> 17:48.924
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're watching the case, stop watching it.
17:49.264 --> 17:50.045
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was
17:51.045 --> 17:51.785
[SPEAKER_01]: She admitted that.
17:52.065 --> 17:55.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Chuck thinks she said she got past Patrick Clinton's testimony.
17:55.646 --> 17:57.867
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when reddeny reached out to say, you got to stop.
17:58.267 --> 18:07.790
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not even sure that you can get a fair and impartial jury now and mass the choosets or at least where the the trial has been held in that city.
18:07.970 --> 18:09.170
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know you can do that.
18:10.611 --> 18:11.551
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we are folks.
18:12.687 --> 18:16.108
[SPEAKER_01]: But then a lot of things you see, if I loved anything out, I think that's about it.
18:16.168 --> 18:19.508
[SPEAKER_01]: So either they, you know, they come with a third note, the third note is over.
18:20.068 --> 18:23.929
[SPEAKER_01]: That can happen as soon as tomorrow at this point, the jury is highly frustrated.
18:23.969 --> 18:25.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Every all that is, you put on their frustrated.
18:25.969 --> 18:31.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they are because the people that's the whole doubts of whatever is saying, man, look, you know, send me back your twice.
18:32.110 --> 18:33.531
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to change my mind.
18:34.231 --> 18:36.231
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's a lot of argument going on.
18:36.751 --> 18:40.832
[SPEAKER_01]: And before I get on, let me tell you what I think that people's having a hard time dealing with.
18:41.883 --> 18:48.811
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is one of the biggest cases that deals with female postpartum health, I think ever.
18:48.911 --> 18:51.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit bigger than the Andrew Yates case.
18:51.774 --> 18:55.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's because of the reason why Andrew Yates said that she did it.
18:55.718 --> 19:01.185
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think they're having a total with now that Reddington, who's a genius through in manslaughter.
19:01.805 --> 19:09.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Mass Lotto was not a charge that was considered off the bat, Kevin Riddington in the middle of the trial went to the judge as a hey can we add manslaughter.
19:10.296 --> 19:11.818
[SPEAKER_01]: The commonwealth fault that.
19:12.947 --> 19:18.191
[SPEAKER_01]: because of the fact that they use the one first degree or second degree and nothing else.
19:18.671 --> 19:19.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me pour this out.
19:20.092 --> 19:23.394
[SPEAKER_01]: This also could have stabbed Kevin Redington in the foot.
19:23.414 --> 19:28.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so even though Kevin Redington makes moves that looks genius, they are at the time.
19:28.618 --> 19:32.020
[SPEAKER_01]: They also could be moves that could come back to get him and let me explain that.
19:32.720 --> 19:36.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that that's what the jury is hung up on.
19:37.263 --> 19:39.304
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do murder one.
19:39.564 --> 19:41.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do murder two.
19:42.104 --> 19:44.825
[SPEAKER_01]: I can, and we can do mass slaughter.
19:45.926 --> 19:53.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Mass slaughter still says that we feel that she was criminally responsible, but it's a lesser charge due to her mental health state.
19:53.868 --> 20:00.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what if the jury went in there and they said murder one and murder two is way too hard for this situation?
20:02.313 --> 20:30.611
[SPEAKER_01]: before Kevin Redden to add it in manslaughter now they only have two more options okay well we don't want to do murder one murder two that's only how does we got so either it's gonna be not guilty or it's gonna be not guilty by a reason of insanity or because she didn't know what she was doing criminally that would have automatically gave Kevin Reddenton and Lindsey Clinton see that acquittal but because manslaughter is there
20:31.371 --> 20:37.696
[SPEAKER_01]: and I've said on juries with this has happened and I'm going to tell you one of the juries the young man got convicted of mass slaughter.
20:38.236 --> 20:45.622
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still ruined his career because he's got off the college, but the things that he did holding the lady hostage the whole nine it needed to be handled.
20:46.143 --> 20:52.748
[SPEAKER_01]: It just was not harsh enough that we thought to do the 30 plus years sentence that he wanted to give him.
20:54.037 --> 20:56.422
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I forget with the actual charge wasn't in the end at the time.
20:56.983 --> 21:00.792
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, well, you also can vote on manslaughter, so we voted him manslaughter.
21:01.747 --> 21:03.628
[SPEAKER_01]: We knew he was still doing a little bit of time.
21:04.749 --> 21:12.853
[SPEAKER_01]: He still wouldn't get his scholarships that he needed to, and he would have to go to counseling before domestic violence.
21:13.373 --> 21:18.156
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Reddington does run the risk of them saying manslaughter.
21:18.816 --> 21:25.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything, but not guilty, or not guilty, by reason of Sandy, or Northcome and Responsibility,
21:26.236 --> 21:29.518
[SPEAKER_01]: Cameron read into the company can appeal.
21:30.678 --> 21:32.859
[SPEAKER_01]: So just as you guys told that.
21:33.420 --> 21:36.341
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's what we're heading.
21:36.361 --> 21:42.865
[SPEAKER_01]: So Cameron could have been genius or stepping up from the foot, we won't go until the jury comes out and see what the verdict is.
21:43.285 --> 21:47.087
[SPEAKER_01]: You have one side that believes that Lindsey Clancy is totally guilty.
21:47.467 --> 21:51.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You have another side that believes that she is innocent.
21:51.729 --> 21:52.890
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to just take from the comments
21:55.071 --> 21:57.972
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a young lady that went up on trial for get her to get her name.
21:57.992 --> 22:00.112
[SPEAKER_01]: She was in court today because she went taking photos.
22:00.132 --> 22:02.813
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in the taking and they're like, Thor and Lizzy.
22:03.193 --> 22:03.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Have fun.
22:03.833 --> 22:05.354
[SPEAKER_01]: You just as bad as the murderer.
22:05.374 --> 22:05.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:05.654 --> 22:07.374
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the woman then killed nobody.
22:07.794 --> 22:08.374
[SPEAKER_01]: She did.
22:08.434 --> 22:09.195
[SPEAKER_01]: She took photos.
22:09.215 --> 22:09.855
[SPEAKER_01]: She shouldn't have took.
22:09.875 --> 22:13.676
[SPEAKER_01]: With y'all as calling for her to be hung in the middle of the yard.
22:13.916 --> 22:15.416
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be people's opinions.
22:15.956 --> 22:17.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But people like me who live this.
22:17.757 --> 22:20.317
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the opinions you guys should listen to.
22:20.337 --> 22:22.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm going to tell you fight out.
22:23.468 --> 22:42.343
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody with us to say oh yeah forget their life and because they had a bad life and they were abused don't mean I'm a killer people you get the people to go oh my dad put me through a whole lot of stuff and he almost tried to kill me you need to see me kill nobody okay well we don't know what happened to you after that either because I'm going to tell you
22:45.105 --> 23:04.039
[SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't have the loving mom that wouldn't have put me in counseling because of the stuff that my dad did to me because the attitude that I had because of the shift that I carried because of the annihilate everybody's mentality that I carried I either would be in jail right now sitting on a murder trial or dead.
23:04.259 --> 23:11.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to tell you what happens in your past with abuse does that it does matter and just because you got lucky enough to where you didn't go kill nobody.
23:12.445 --> 23:18.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you'll pose part of never got so bad to you with hearing voices, does it mean it don't happen?
23:19.207 --> 23:33.591
[SPEAKER_01]: So I go off a lot of things, a personal experience, the drugs we're gonna talk about because I know all of them And what I think could go happen, but I think that's why the jury is dead lot because they're I think they're testing between I guilty and mass thought of for some of them.
23:34.291 --> 23:39.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some of them that feels like that she made me a hundred percent guilty And after this case, I don't never want to hear
23:40.638 --> 23:49.661
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody say, well, if you have a woman on trial and the jury's mostly made of women, the jury's going to make sure that the woman don't get convicted every time.
23:50.001 --> 23:55.603
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not the case, because that jury right now is made of nine women and three men.
23:56.083 --> 23:58.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow I could be wrong.
23:58.904 --> 24:06.567
[SPEAKER_01]: We won't know until it's over, but somehow I just don't think that the men is the biggest holdout in this case.
24:07.740 --> 24:08.681
[SPEAKER_01]: just put that out there.
24:08.781 --> 24:10.001
[SPEAKER_01]: So there we are, folks, one for it.
24:10.021 --> 24:11.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch day four.
24:13.243 --> 24:16.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to come back and give you guys a little brief updates.
24:16.345 --> 24:20.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I said I'll be back after the verdict, but the verdict may never come at this point the way it looks.
24:20.488 --> 24:24.770
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to let you guys know what was happening with the legal jargon is that's going on.
24:25.090 --> 24:27.312
[SPEAKER_01]: We are playing legal baseball right now.
24:27.812 --> 24:32.615
[SPEAKER_01]: The judge, the injury has one more strike and if the jury sends out a note,
24:33.930 --> 24:36.973
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it, bug game is over, a mistrial will happen.
24:37.434 --> 24:39.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, in the case of the mistrals, this is going around.
24:39.877 --> 24:42.740
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not mean that Lindsey Clinton gets to walk off and be free.
24:43.200 --> 24:49.027
[SPEAKER_01]: She will probably go back to the hospital in which she is staying at because it's a mistrial.
24:49.627 --> 24:52.791
[SPEAKER_01]: She has not been found guilty or not guilty of her charges.
24:54.023 --> 24:59.828
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do this right, they were trying to get this retrial up as quickly as possible.
25:00.209 --> 25:02.150
[SPEAKER_01]: So most likely she will not be free.
25:02.551 --> 25:10.878
[SPEAKER_01]: She will go back to the mental hospital that she has been in this whole entire time for the last three years and she will await her new trial.
25:13.320 --> 25:14.781
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright guys, that is it.
25:14.941 --> 25:16.262
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we back again?
25:16.282 --> 25:18.904
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the next time we'll be doing the full episodes.
25:18.944 --> 25:22.026
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you all about this case what I think about it, where I think things are wrong.
25:22.046 --> 25:22.866
[SPEAKER_01]: I think things are right.
25:23.467 --> 25:31.372
[SPEAKER_01]: I give you a little bit of personal experience in there because I have lifted and I have lived different many years with several of my close family members.
25:31.792 --> 25:32.913
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll be back.
25:32.973 --> 25:35.635
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll tell you what I think about this case, where things are right and wrong.
25:36.115 --> 25:37.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we get a verdict soon.
25:37.976 --> 25:41.400
[SPEAKER_01]: But in any case, I want to thank you for joining me here today.
25:41.881 --> 25:49.330
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that you do have many options to true crime and interview podcasts, and I am just grateful that I am one of them.
25:50.241 --> 25:57.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Always be good to yourself, and each other, and always remember, always stay humbled.
25:58.163 --> 26:07.226
[SPEAKER_01]: And act of kindness can make someone's day, a little love of compassion can go a long way, and that there is an extraordinary person in all of us.
26:07.966 --> 26:09.827
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll catch you guys on the next one.
26:13.952 --> 26:16.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to write, comment, and subscribe.
26:16.994 --> 26:18.214
[SPEAKER_00]: Join us on social media.
26:18.814 --> 26:20.555
[SPEAKER_00]: One link to the link tree has it all.
26:21.256 --> 26:25.738
[SPEAKER_00]: Feel free to drop us a line at truecrimeantauthors at gmail.com.
26:26.278 --> 26:28.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Sound mixing and editing by David McClam.
26:29.440 --> 26:32.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Intro script by Sophie Wilde and David McClam.
26:33.062 --> 26:35.863
[SPEAKER_00]: theme music, legendary by New Alchemist.
26:36.563 --> 26:39.445
[SPEAKER_00]: Introduction and ending credits by Jackie Voice.
26:40.303 --> 26:44.435
[SPEAKER_00]: See you next time on True Crime, Authors and Extraordinary People!
00:00.071 --> 00:04.929
[SPEAKER_01]: We are playing legal baseball, and we are on the second strike.
00:09.385 --> 00:13.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to True Crime, offers and extraordinary people.
00:14.007 --> 00:16.989
[SPEAKER_00]: The podcast where we bring two passions together.
00:17.589 --> 00:20.430
[SPEAKER_00]: The show that gives new meaning to the old adage.
00:20.951 --> 00:27.874
[SPEAKER_00]: Truth is stranger than fiction, and reminding you that there is an extraordinary person in all of us.
00:28.534 --> 00:30.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Here is your host, David McLean.
00:30.795 --> 00:33.057
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to be about a bunch of the episode of True Crime?
00:33.277 --> 00:35.398
[SPEAKER_01]: All those are the extraordinary people, of course, I'm your man.
00:36.078 --> 00:37.018
[SPEAKER_01]: David McClab.
00:37.038 --> 00:40.319
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, if you guys haven't already, Michigan follows an Alba Social Media.
00:40.819 --> 00:45.640
[SPEAKER_01]: One link to a link tree will give you every place you need to go pertain to the show.
00:46.380 --> 00:56.443
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I always like to remind you, if you are someone or you know someone who feels like hurting themselves or someone else, please leave this episode in dial 988.
00:58.123 --> 01:02.644
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the suicide prevention hotline, they can get you the help that you need.
01:03.124 --> 01:12.007
[SPEAKER_01]: And in case no one else has told you this today, let me be the first one to tell you I do care and I do need you to be here.
01:12.707 --> 01:15.108
[SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing worth your life.
01:16.265 --> 01:17.306
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, guys, far start this episode.
01:17.326 --> 01:22.609
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say we have lost many of celebrities this week or last week.
01:22.649 --> 01:25.211
[SPEAKER_01]: I should say at this point, including the great.
01:25.791 --> 01:26.812
[SPEAKER_01]: Dali, pardon me.
01:26.832 --> 01:28.713
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to say, rest in peace.
01:28.733 --> 01:33.476
[SPEAKER_01]: So them, I will be doing a piece on Dali at least here pretty soon.
01:33.917 --> 01:44.544
[SPEAKER_01]: But rest in peace to the queen of country, one of the biggest humanitarians that I know and one person that's outside of my race is that did a lot.
01:45.124 --> 01:47.467
[SPEAKER_01]: for the African American race.
01:48.027 --> 01:54.254
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I just want to say, risk and peace to dolly into the others that we lost.
01:55.303 --> 02:00.285
[SPEAKER_01]: Hayden Penetir, Tim Curry, Michael Wright, maybe August and peace.
02:00.525 --> 02:10.109
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so on to the topic at hand, it has been four days, just about 30 hours of deliberation.
02:10.630 --> 02:18.393
[SPEAKER_01]: We still have no verdict, and the jury has now sent out two debt lock notes.
02:19.420 --> 02:22.963
[SPEAKER_01]: saying that they cannot come to a unanimous decision.
02:23.483 --> 02:26.966
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to come in real quick and kind of explain where we are now.
02:27.046 --> 02:30.689
[SPEAKER_01]: What happens in case you guys are not up to legal jargon?
02:30.749 --> 02:38.196
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not a lawyer, but I've said on many juries and I do know what these things and tell because I've researched them for doing these kind of true crime things.
02:38.916 --> 02:41.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I do know something about it.
02:41.198 --> 02:48.403
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to come and give you guys a little update on what's happening right now in the Lindsey Clancy case right now.
02:48.423 --> 02:51.586
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is day 2627.
02:52.506 --> 02:53.607
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so lost in the case.
02:53.687 --> 02:54.268
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those.
02:54.608 --> 02:59.211
[SPEAKER_01]: But we are on four days of the liberation and about 30 hours.
03:01.143 --> 03:03.565
[SPEAKER_01]: The jury has already sent out two dead lug notes.
03:03.845 --> 03:10.929
[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, let me tell you what the options were that the jury can decide on what to charge her with.
03:11.629 --> 03:17.853
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's first degree murder, second degree murder, and manslaughter.
03:18.574 --> 03:19.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Those three charges,
03:21.035 --> 03:29.378
[SPEAKER_01]: The jury have to believe that Lanzi was criminally responsible at the time that she killed her children.
03:30.098 --> 03:32.799
[SPEAKER_01]: The other two options are guilty or
03:35.629 --> 03:43.494
[SPEAKER_01]: guilty by a reason of insanity, but did they call it something now guilty by not being criminally responsible, some of that nature.
03:43.554 --> 03:47.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But for like what I'm going to call it, what I use always be called guilty by a reason of insanity.
03:48.637 --> 03:59.404
[SPEAKER_01]: Those two charges means that the jury has to believe that Lindsey had no criminal responsibility at all at the time that she killed her
04:04.630 --> 04:05.210
[SPEAKER_01]: to notes.
04:05.310 --> 04:12.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe the first one came in day two and the second came today and day four as of this recording.
04:13.632 --> 04:20.334
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me tell you where the legal stance is because they have sent out what we call a debt lock note.
04:20.814 --> 04:28.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And what that means is they sent this note to the judge and say, hey, just per your instruction from the get go we've done this, but we cannot come to that
04:34.777 --> 04:42.624
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, taking your time to do this, but I'm going to ask that you go back and you continue to liberate and see if you can come to a conclusion.
04:43.785 --> 04:45.407
[SPEAKER_01]: Now notice the judge is very neutral.
04:45.787 --> 04:47.989
[SPEAKER_01]: The judge gives no legal instruction.
04:48.469 --> 04:52.113
[SPEAKER_01]: He just says, go back try to come to a decision.
04:53.423 --> 05:05.548
[SPEAKER_01]: jury gets up, goes back today's later today they come back and say, Hey, we went back, we delivery the way you said judge, we still cannot come to your net in this decision.
05:06.449 --> 05:16.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Just now calls them out and now gives them what many states have different names for it, but it's commonly known as the anti-detlock instruction.
05:17.074 --> 05:18.874
[SPEAKER_01]: What that instruction basically says is,
05:22.525 --> 05:26.246
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, underdoing your right, we don't think there's a better jury that could do this.
05:26.606 --> 05:33.208
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in all these cases, we have 12 people that we need to kind of get all your 12 minds to agree.
05:34.388 --> 05:42.390
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, if you are voting not guilty, you need to look at pretty much the side of the guilty and say, okay, let's re-examadis.
05:42.690 --> 05:45.630
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, is there possible she's guilty and vice versa?
05:45.650 --> 05:50.071
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're guilty, but you don't, we need to look at the side of the not guilty.
05:52.432 --> 05:53.293
[SPEAKER_01]: and a misdicision.
05:54.154 --> 06:02.786
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that weighs a little bit harder saying, you know, keep it open mind, go back, re-examine that same evidence of all y'all are seeing as you can come to.
06:03.615 --> 06:27.277
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I said we're now playing legal baseball, and now this is the second strike, because if the jury says a third deadlock note that is it, the judge cannot go any further and that is by ruling of the Supreme Court, because of the fact that the Supreme Court and other higher courts has come on pretty much said, all right, pass that time.
06:28.276 --> 06:38.924
[SPEAKER_01]: If you keep telling these people to go back and negotiate, you know, basically you're holding him hostage at this point, you're pretty much telling them your service is not going to be done to you come to some kind of averted.
06:39.344 --> 06:41.926
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that looks like coursing averted.
06:42.387 --> 06:47.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the judge is really putting pressure on you to come back with the guilty or not guilty.
06:47.210 --> 06:49.252
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to decide something or you're not going home.
06:49.812 --> 06:58.997
[SPEAKER_01]: So the judge is now legally locked into having to declare a mistrial if a third note comes.
06:59.417 --> 07:01.719
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already used his first two strikes.
07:02.079 --> 07:04.160
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one was to send hit them back.
07:04.780 --> 07:06.341
[SPEAKER_01]: Nicely, no instruction.
07:06.681 --> 07:10.223
[SPEAKER_01]: The second was to give them the anti-dent lot instruction, which he did.
07:10.623 --> 07:14.045
[SPEAKER_01]: The third doubt was to say, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we'll do it for your service.
07:14.646 --> 07:16.887
[SPEAKER_01]: You may be going home now in declared mistrial.
07:18.063 --> 07:25.011
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about why I think they're hung up and what's going happen in the case of this is a mistrial because this is where we're hitting.
07:25.511 --> 07:30.657
[SPEAKER_01]: But first, I want to tell you why I do not like the anti deadlock instruction.
07:31.357 --> 07:31.858
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate it.
07:32.378 --> 07:40.307
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wish that the Supreme Court and others would have said, hey, if they come out one time deadlock on that second time sitting in home, here is why.
07:41.616 --> 07:44.579
[SPEAKER_01]: You're asking somebody to pretty much go change their mind.
07:45.299 --> 07:51.785
[SPEAKER_01]: You're asking people that has looked at all of the evidence at this point, whether you're guilty or not guilty, you've made a decision.
07:52.346 --> 07:57.110
[SPEAKER_01]: And for more than 48 hours, you've stood on said decision.
07:58.197 --> 07:59.838
[SPEAKER_01]: but you're getting as a change or mind.
08:00.418 --> 08:06.680
[SPEAKER_01]: In the minds of the week, now I'm not saying anybody Jewish week, you know, mind of the week is not of the regular thing.
08:06.840 --> 08:07.940
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll week with a lot of things.
08:08.321 --> 08:11.162
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that you are a week when it comes to peer pressure.
08:11.982 --> 08:26.427
[SPEAKER_01]: In the mind of the week of somebody who can't be peer pressure, you can lean on this person so hard to get them do what they want you to do, depending on the circumstance that they will vote the way that you want them to vote.
08:27.027 --> 08:29.711
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm not just making this up.
08:30.212 --> 08:32.134
[SPEAKER_01]: I have first 10 knowledge of this.
08:32.495 --> 08:43.669
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys ever heard my episodes back in the day while I talk about sitting on the jury because they wanted to go have the Easter ham, this is the case in point why I do not like the anti-
08:44.917 --> 08:46.417
[SPEAKER_01]: deadlock instruction.
08:47.078 --> 08:51.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Because in that case, we sent out that we were deadlocked one time.
08:51.919 --> 08:53.300
[SPEAKER_01]: We never made it to the second.
08:53.940 --> 08:55.480
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was because I was weak.
08:55.500 --> 08:56.540
[SPEAKER_01]: He was being nearly the eyes.
08:56.560 --> 08:58.301
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you that was the standouts.
08:58.701 --> 08:59.981
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we're not going to do this.
09:00.022 --> 09:08.244
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to come back two, three, four, five, six weeks if it took that to get to a verdict or to just tell the judge that we are forever deadlocked.
09:09.197 --> 09:24.488
[SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of these other people doing what I think they should have done, which is still in their conviction, they felt that he was guilty, okay fine, and we send another note to the judge, then we send a third note to the judge, then we just let them retry it, know they all switched their vote to us.
09:25.588 --> 09:34.594
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I pointed out that this cat was a black guy, and I, and there's only two black jurors, and it just so happens that the black jurors is the one that was holding out.
09:35.115 --> 09:44.581
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though there was another lady at the end who wasn't black that was teeterin, but because the fact that they put so much pressure on her, she just went with, where everybody else wanted to go, it was her guilty.
09:45.361 --> 09:48.784
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's why I don't like that instruction.
09:50.153 --> 10:00.136
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it wasn't for us that young man would have been fine again, I don't know if he'd go through indesend never got that part that far because I just seen the evidence of the cops gave and I'm like based on this, he didn't do anything.
10:00.176 --> 10:02.396
[SPEAKER_01]: We can even get a cocktail of story straight.
10:02.476 --> 10:09.918
[SPEAKER_01]: But they changed their vote to hours just so they can go home, didn't have to come back that next week because they all had extended their cases in Easter hands with him.
10:10.418 --> 10:13.059
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the same thing that can happen in the Lindsey Clanzi case.
10:13.540 --> 10:22.644
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody has an anniversary coming up, if somebody has a towel that'd be doing the performance coming up, they may change their vote to get out.
10:23.344 --> 10:27.587
[SPEAKER_01]: And that goes against the instruction that you get at the beginning of becoming a
10:28.707 --> 10:30.508
[SPEAKER_01]: You, the judge, ask you every day.
10:30.968 --> 10:34.409
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have something that is pending that you can no longer be a Jewer?
10:34.869 --> 10:41.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it will set you back a little bit, but you still got six other people waiting in the wings that can take these bots.
10:42.272 --> 10:42.552
[SPEAKER_01]: But...
10:44.068 --> 10:44.788
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we are.
10:45.609 --> 10:51.553
[SPEAKER_01]: So what happens if this case goes to a mistrial, which it looks like that's where we're hitting?
10:52.414 --> 11:02.981
[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, once the judge calls a mistrial, the prosecution and the defense attorneys can do something that they've never had the opportunity to do this whole entire time.
11:03.521 --> 11:09.004
[SPEAKER_01]: and that is step foot into the liberation room or conduct the meeting out in the hallway.
11:09.424 --> 11:13.647
[SPEAKER_01]: What they're looking for is for jurors that are left behind.
11:13.667 --> 11:15.268
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, everyone else kicked rocks.
11:15.288 --> 11:24.613
[SPEAKER_01]: They left, but you have a few jurors that are sitting behind or waiting because they're willing to talk to the prosecution and to the defense.
11:25.393 --> 11:33.381
[SPEAKER_01]: so that they can tell them why they voted the way they did, and what happened in the liberation room that caused the mistrial.
11:33.921 --> 11:41.108
[SPEAKER_01]: Now here where the evidence comes in for both, because there is no questions off limits.
11:41.628 --> 11:50.477
[SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution and the DA can ask the jurors as many questions as they want at any way that they want to see where their case went wrong.
11:50.977 --> 12:01.860
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the case of the prosecution, they want to know, okay, what made you vote that she was not guilty or not criminally responsible?
12:02.401 --> 12:09.723
[SPEAKER_01]: And the defense wants to know what made you feel like she was criminally responsible in guilty of this charge.
12:10.063 --> 12:13.144
[SPEAKER_01]: What they're now trying to do at least a prosecution who has
12:17.610 --> 12:22.032
[SPEAKER_01]: can they turn their case around the second time to retry this case?
12:22.672 --> 12:29.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do we walk out with the exact same verdict or outcome that we just had?
12:29.996 --> 12:36.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to remind you of one of the other biggest cases that happened in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts recently.
12:36.879 --> 12:38.000
[SPEAKER_01]: That was Karen Reed.
12:38.440 --> 12:42.442
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen Reed was found guilty of peeled came back and this year was let go,
12:43.202 --> 12:45.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to tell you I don't believe Carrie was guilty.
12:45.564 --> 12:51.590
[SPEAKER_01]: I've yet to do that case, but there's so much so much evidence that point of fall with that to the ridiculous.
12:51.610 --> 12:55.053
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, so they don't know if they want that outcome.
12:56.214 --> 13:05.042
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one is that a lot of the George chains their mind where they said on guilty, they went to night guilty after re-looking at all the evidence.
13:05.817 --> 13:16.341
[SPEAKER_01]: did the jury do what they were told to do and we're not able to consider things that was outside in our presented to them aka the Patrick did it theory.
13:16.722 --> 13:18.182
[SPEAKER_01]: They could not consider that.
13:18.862 --> 13:24.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So after they gather all this information that they've never had privy did they wouldn't put them.
13:25.160 --> 13:26.702
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to get all the information.
13:27.222 --> 13:32.687
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it goes into if the prosecution decides they want to retry the case.
13:33.288 --> 13:41.556
[SPEAKER_01]: If they decide to retry the case, they will follow the documents and then it will go on the court calendar and then a new trial with a new jury.
13:42.217 --> 13:49.464
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, sometimes a new judge, sometimes the same judge, but definitely the jury changes pants.
13:50.752 --> 13:54.934
[SPEAKER_01]: If they retry this case, if it comes to that, I do hope they keep this saying judge.
13:55.334 --> 13:58.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that this judge has been fair.
13:58.576 --> 14:00.777
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been very impartial.
14:01.237 --> 14:03.679
[SPEAKER_01]: He had not taken anybody side.
14:04.059 --> 14:09.021
[SPEAKER_01]: He has jumped the defense as much as he jumped the prosecution when there was something wrong.
14:09.401 --> 14:11.843
[SPEAKER_01]: He's pretty much invested in this case at this point.
14:12.223 --> 14:15.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really don't believe another judge could do this case.
14:16.685 --> 14:17.406
[SPEAKER_01]: any better.
14:17.567 --> 14:20.932
[SPEAKER_01]: So if they retry this case, I don't know what's going to happen, bro.
14:21.633 --> 14:25.779
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm still reserving my thoughts that do have a big episode, quote out when this verdict comes through.
14:26.760 --> 14:31.026
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to let you guys know that yeah, this is the case of the century.
14:31.066 --> 14:31.427
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I would go
14:34.030 --> 14:45.017
[SPEAKER_01]: So other than the care and recays, I also want to make note of the case, they keep comparing this one to Andrea Yates, how the difference there, I'm going to point out in my final episode.
14:45.478 --> 14:57.225
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to point out, you know, the Commonwealth, the prosecution, got up there, I didn't like, oh, Andrea Yates, she tried to convince suicide server times, she went down and then what would happen?
14:57.485 --> 14:59.547
[SPEAKER_01]: She was found clearly not responsible.
15:00.087 --> 15:02.209
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was let go, that is not what happened.
15:02.229 --> 15:06.172
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys want to know the truth, I give you this to Big Andrea Yatesos found guilty originally.
15:07.314 --> 15:13.718
[SPEAKER_01]: Upon appeal, Andrew Yates was found not criminally responsible by a reason of insanity.
15:14.118 --> 15:15.779
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't let the commonwealth, why do you?
15:15.840 --> 15:20.803
[SPEAKER_01]: They're making the sound like that this is the exact same case that Lindsey Clinton has was there's a whole lot of differences.
15:21.223 --> 15:28.127
[SPEAKER_01]: And that in the case before her, they had no problem finding Andrew Yates not guilty and just let her go.
15:28.428 --> 15:32.150
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's decided that she wants to stay in the military in her own.
15:32.350 --> 15:33.790
[SPEAKER_01]: That's about the only part of the guy right.
15:33.810 --> 15:34.431
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
15:34.551 --> 15:40.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Andrew Yates, since she has been a file not guilty, did has come up many times to be let go.
15:41.032 --> 15:43.413
[SPEAKER_01]: And she herself is saying, I want to stay here.
15:43.533 --> 15:46.273
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is why I need to be her defensive turning.
15:46.634 --> 15:48.954
[SPEAKER_01]: Still keeps in contact with her to this day.
15:49.374 --> 15:50.675
[SPEAKER_01]: I just seen an interview with him.
15:51.155 --> 15:52.055
[SPEAKER_01]: They still talk.
15:52.135 --> 15:54.395
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes and visits and takes her favorite coffee.
15:54.756 --> 15:58.236
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, Andrew Yates has decided that's where she needs to be.
15:58.977 --> 16:00.317
[SPEAKER_01]: Not because though,
16:01.017 --> 16:02.818
[SPEAKER_01]: The law says she has to stay there.
16:03.238 --> 16:05.699
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been trying to kick her out for several years.
16:06.139 --> 16:07.800
[SPEAKER_01]: More about that coming on the pipeline.
16:08.040 --> 16:10.641
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wonder point out that they keep making reference to this.
16:10.661 --> 16:11.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't include an argument.
16:11.921 --> 16:22.285
[SPEAKER_01]: And how, you know, all of the people found her now guilty, no, she was found guilty originally, appealed and then found not guilty.
16:22.785 --> 16:29.088
[SPEAKER_01]: That becomes the other part of why the prosecution has to decide, do we just let this go?
16:30.908 --> 16:39.091
[SPEAKER_01]: because even though the commonwealth didn't want to tell you the whole two minute days case, oh, they know exactly how the case turned out.
16:39.851 --> 16:42.512
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that there was a guilty verdict before not guilty.
16:43.252 --> 16:47.474
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that the prosecution and your Yades case at that point now lost the case.
16:48.014 --> 16:50.495
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the right of the defense to appeal that's what they did.
16:50.915 --> 16:52.275
[SPEAKER_01]: So now they have to decide.
16:52.355 --> 16:57.297
[SPEAKER_01]: If we take this case and retry it, do we run the risk?
16:58.487 --> 17:03.410
[SPEAKER_01]: of having a non guilty or not guilty plea or verdict.
17:03.450 --> 17:22.680
[SPEAKER_01]: I should say at this point, the other thing I want to point out is I'm not really sure that they can retry the case in Massachusetts or at least that same city, because there is no one in this free world that's not sitting on that jury already that can come and tell me I don't know nothing about the Lindsey
17:24.410 --> 17:26.111
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has been enthralled.
17:26.611 --> 17:28.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has been knee-deep in it.
17:29.273 --> 17:33.015
[SPEAKER_01]: Every news outlet, every true crime outlet has covered it.
17:33.455 --> 17:34.776
[SPEAKER_01]: Know what you haven't heard about it.
17:35.236 --> 17:46.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the one witness of the good or names of the defense one to bring in at one time had to answer the point that she even watched the case up until Reddington comes out to her and say, hey, I don't want to use you as a witness.
17:47.203 --> 17:48.924
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're watching the case, stop watching it.
17:49.264 --> 17:50.045
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was
17:51.045 --> 17:51.785
[SPEAKER_01]: She admitted that.
17:52.065 --> 17:55.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Chuck thinks she said she got past Patrick Clinton's testimony.
17:55.646 --> 17:57.867
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when reddeny reached out to say, you got to stop.
17:58.267 --> 18:07.790
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not even sure that you can get a fair and impartial jury now and mass the choosets or at least where the the trial has been held in that city.
18:07.970 --> 18:09.170
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know you can do that.
18:10.611 --> 18:11.551
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we are folks.
18:12.687 --> 18:16.108
[SPEAKER_01]: But then a lot of things you see, if I loved anything out, I think that's about it.
18:16.168 --> 18:19.508
[SPEAKER_01]: So either they, you know, they come with a third note, the third note is over.
18:20.068 --> 18:23.929
[SPEAKER_01]: That can happen as soon as tomorrow at this point, the jury is highly frustrated.
18:23.969 --> 18:25.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Every all that is, you put on their frustrated.
18:25.969 --> 18:31.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they are because the people that's the whole doubts of whatever is saying, man, look, you know, send me back your twice.
18:32.110 --> 18:33.531
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to change my mind.
18:34.231 --> 18:36.231
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's a lot of argument going on.
18:36.751 --> 18:40.832
[SPEAKER_01]: And before I get on, let me tell you what I think that people's having a hard time dealing with.
18:41.883 --> 18:48.811
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is one of the biggest cases that deals with female postpartum health, I think ever.
18:48.911 --> 18:51.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit bigger than the Andrew Yates case.
18:51.774 --> 18:55.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's because of the reason why Andrew Yates said that she did it.
18:55.718 --> 19:01.185
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think they're having a total with now that Reddington, who's a genius through in manslaughter.
19:01.805 --> 19:09.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Mass Lotto was not a charge that was considered off the bat, Kevin Riddington in the middle of the trial went to the judge as a hey can we add manslaughter.
19:10.296 --> 19:11.818
[SPEAKER_01]: The commonwealth fault that.
19:12.947 --> 19:18.191
[SPEAKER_01]: because of the fact that they use the one first degree or second degree and nothing else.
19:18.671 --> 19:19.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me pour this out.
19:20.092 --> 19:23.394
[SPEAKER_01]: This also could have stabbed Kevin Redington in the foot.
19:23.414 --> 19:28.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so even though Kevin Redington makes moves that looks genius, they are at the time.
19:28.618 --> 19:32.020
[SPEAKER_01]: They also could be moves that could come back to get him and let me explain that.
19:32.720 --> 19:36.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that that's what the jury is hung up on.
19:37.263 --> 19:39.304
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do murder one.
19:39.564 --> 19:41.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do murder two.
19:42.104 --> 19:44.825
[SPEAKER_01]: I can, and we can do mass slaughter.
19:45.926 --> 19:53.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Mass slaughter still says that we feel that she was criminally responsible, but it's a lesser charge due to her mental health state.
19:53.868 --> 20:00.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what if the jury went in there and they said murder one and murder two is way too hard for this situation?
20:02.313 --> 20:30.611
[SPEAKER_01]: before Kevin Redden to add it in manslaughter now they only have two more options okay well we don't want to do murder one murder two that's only how does we got so either it's gonna be not guilty or it's gonna be not guilty by a reason of insanity or because she didn't know what she was doing criminally that would have automatically gave Kevin Reddenton and Lindsey Clinton see that acquittal but because manslaughter is there
20:31.371 --> 20:37.696
[SPEAKER_01]: and I've said on juries with this has happened and I'm going to tell you one of the juries the young man got convicted of mass slaughter.
20:38.236 --> 20:45.622
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still ruined his career because he's got off the college, but the things that he did holding the lady hostage the whole nine it needed to be handled.
20:46.143 --> 20:52.748
[SPEAKER_01]: It just was not harsh enough that we thought to do the 30 plus years sentence that he wanted to give him.
20:54.037 --> 20:56.422
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I forget with the actual charge wasn't in the end at the time.
20:56.983 --> 21:00.792
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, well, you also can vote on manslaughter, so we voted him manslaughter.
21:01.747 --> 21:03.628
[SPEAKER_01]: We knew he was still doing a little bit of time.
21:04.749 --> 21:12.853
[SPEAKER_01]: He still wouldn't get his scholarships that he needed to, and he would have to go to counseling before domestic violence.
21:13.373 --> 21:18.156
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Reddington does run the risk of them saying manslaughter.
21:18.816 --> 21:25.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything, but not guilty, or not guilty, by reason of Sandy, or Northcome and Responsibility,
21:26.236 --> 21:29.518
[SPEAKER_01]: Cameron read into the company can appeal.
21:30.678 --> 21:32.859
[SPEAKER_01]: So just as you guys told that.
21:33.420 --> 21:36.341
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's what we're heading.
21:36.361 --> 21:42.865
[SPEAKER_01]: So Cameron could have been genius or stepping up from the foot, we won't go until the jury comes out and see what the verdict is.
21:43.285 --> 21:47.087
[SPEAKER_01]: You have one side that believes that Lindsey Clancy is totally guilty.
21:47.467 --> 21:51.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You have another side that believes that she is innocent.
21:51.729 --> 21:52.890
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to just take from the comments
21:55.071 --> 21:57.972
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a young lady that went up on trial for get her to get her name.
21:57.992 --> 22:00.112
[SPEAKER_01]: She was in court today because she went taking photos.
22:00.132 --> 22:02.813
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in the taking and they're like, Thor and Lizzy.
22:03.193 --> 22:03.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Have fun.
22:03.833 --> 22:05.354
[SPEAKER_01]: You just as bad as the murderer.
22:05.374 --> 22:05.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:05.654 --> 22:07.374
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the woman then killed nobody.
22:07.794 --> 22:08.374
[SPEAKER_01]: She did.
22:08.434 --> 22:09.195
[SPEAKER_01]: She took photos.
22:09.215 --> 22:09.855
[SPEAKER_01]: She shouldn't have took.
22:09.875 --> 22:13.676
[SPEAKER_01]: With y'all as calling for her to be hung in the middle of the yard.
22:13.916 --> 22:15.416
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be people's opinions.
22:15.956 --> 22:17.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But people like me who live this.
22:17.757 --> 22:20.317
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the opinions you guys should listen to.
22:20.337 --> 22:22.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm going to tell you fight out.
22:23.468 --> 22:42.343
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody with us to say oh yeah forget their life and because they had a bad life and they were abused don't mean I'm a killer people you get the people to go oh my dad put me through a whole lot of stuff and he almost tried to kill me you need to see me kill nobody okay well we don't know what happened to you after that either because I'm going to tell you
22:45.105 --> 23:04.039
[SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't have the loving mom that wouldn't have put me in counseling because of the stuff that my dad did to me because the attitude that I had because of the shift that I carried because of the annihilate everybody's mentality that I carried I either would be in jail right now sitting on a murder trial or dead.
23:04.259 --> 23:11.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to tell you what happens in your past with abuse does that it does matter and just because you got lucky enough to where you didn't go kill nobody.
23:12.445 --> 23:18.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you'll pose part of never got so bad to you with hearing voices, does it mean it don't happen?
23:19.207 --> 23:33.591
[SPEAKER_01]: So I go off a lot of things, a personal experience, the drugs we're gonna talk about because I know all of them And what I think could go happen, but I think that's why the jury is dead lot because they're I think they're testing between I guilty and mass thought of for some of them.
23:34.291 --> 23:39.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some of them that feels like that she made me a hundred percent guilty And after this case, I don't never want to hear
23:40.638 --> 23:49.661
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody say, well, if you have a woman on trial and the jury's mostly made of women, the jury's going to make sure that the woman don't get convicted every time.
23:50.001 --> 23:55.603
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not the case, because that jury right now is made of nine women and three men.
23:56.083 --> 23:58.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow I could be wrong.
23:58.904 --> 24:06.567
[SPEAKER_01]: We won't know until it's over, but somehow I just don't think that the men is the biggest holdout in this case.
24:07.740 --> 24:08.681
[SPEAKER_01]: just put that out there.
24:08.781 --> 24:10.001
[SPEAKER_01]: So there we are, folks, one for it.
24:10.021 --> 24:11.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch day four.
24:13.243 --> 24:16.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to come back and give you guys a little brief updates.
24:16.345 --> 24:20.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I said I'll be back after the verdict, but the verdict may never come at this point the way it looks.
24:20.488 --> 24:24.770
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to let you guys know what was happening with the legal jargon is that's going on.
24:25.090 --> 24:27.312
[SPEAKER_01]: We are playing legal baseball right now.
24:27.812 --> 24:32.615
[SPEAKER_01]: The judge, the injury has one more strike and if the jury sends out a note,
24:33.930 --> 24:36.973
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it, bug game is over, a mistrial will happen.
24:37.434 --> 24:39.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, in the case of the mistrals, this is going around.
24:39.877 --> 24:42.740
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not mean that Lindsey Clinton gets to walk off and be free.
24:43.200 --> 24:49.027
[SPEAKER_01]: She will probably go back to the hospital in which she is staying at because it's a mistrial.
24:49.627 --> 24:52.791
[SPEAKER_01]: She has not been found guilty or not guilty of her charges.
24:54.023 --> 24:59.828
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do this right, they were trying to get this retrial up as quickly as possible.
25:00.209 --> 25:02.150
[SPEAKER_01]: So most likely she will not be free.
25:02.551 --> 25:10.878
[SPEAKER_01]: She will go back to the mental hospital that she has been in this whole entire time for the last three years and she will await her new trial.
25:13.320 --> 25:14.781
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright guys, that is it.
25:14.941 --> 25:16.262
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we back again?
25:16.282 --> 25:18.904
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the next time we'll be doing the full episodes.
25:18.944 --> 25:22.026
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you all about this case what I think about it, where I think things are wrong.
25:22.046 --> 25:22.866
[SPEAKER_01]: I think things are right.
25:23.467 --> 25:31.372
[SPEAKER_01]: I give you a little bit of personal experience in there because I have lifted and I have lived different many years with several of my close family members.
25:31.792 --> 25:32.913
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll be back.
25:32.973 --> 25:35.635
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll tell you what I think about this case, where things are right and wrong.
25:36.115 --> 25:37.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we get a verdict soon.
25:37.976 --> 25:41.400
[SPEAKER_01]: But in any case, I want to thank you for joining me here today.
25:41.881 --> 25:49.330
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that you do have many options to true crime and interview podcasts, and I am just grateful that I am one of them.
25:50.241 --> 25:57.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Always be good to yourself, and each other, and always remember, always stay humbled.
25:58.163 --> 26:07.226
[SPEAKER_01]: And act of kindness can make someone's day, a little love of compassion can go a long way, and that there is an extraordinary person in all of us.
26:07.966 --> 26:09.827
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll catch you guys on the next one.
26:13.952 --> 26:16.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to write, comment, and subscribe.
26:16.994 --> 26:18.214
[SPEAKER_00]: Join us on social media.
26:18.814 --> 26:20.555
[SPEAKER_00]: One link to the link tree has it all.
26:21.256 --> 26:25.738
[SPEAKER_00]: Feel free to drop us a line at truecrimeantauthors at gmail.com.
26:26.278 --> 26:28.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Sound mixing and editing by David McClam.
26:29.440 --> 26:32.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Intro script by Sophie Wilde and David McClam.
26:33.062 --> 26:35.863
[SPEAKER_00]: theme music, legendary by New Alchemist.
26:36.563 --> 26:39.445
[SPEAKER_00]: Introduction and ending credits by Jackie Voice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: See you next time on True Crime, Authors and Extraordinary People!